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Author Topic: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)  (Read 16339 times)

Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2014, 06:01:32 PM »

I read somewhere (forgot where) that player needs to do unpaid bounty work - i.e., kill faction enemies without bounty rewards.  I have not tried this myself to confirm.
Doesn't work. All you get is an intel message saying you didn't get paid because of your standing
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Megas

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2014, 06:09:17 PM »

Did you try to kill a faction's enemies without any bounty active?  For example, attack pirates while no bounty event is active because you want more XP, and the vengeful faction happens to own the system you fight in?
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Ordanen

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2014, 06:18:14 PM »

I read somewhere (forgot where) that player needs to do unpaid bounty work - i.e., kill faction enemies without bounty rewards.  I have not tried this myself to confirm.
Doesn't work. All you get is an intel message saying you didn't get paid because of your standing

It does work, I didn't get paid at hostile, but standing improves by 5. No longer worked at vengeful.

Edit: Shouldn't post 3 AM. Heh.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 06:32:55 PM by Ordanen »
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2014, 06:23:08 PM »

I read somewhere (forgot where) that player needs to do unpaid bounty work - i.e., kill faction enemies without bounty rewards.  I have not tried this myself to confirm.
Doesn't work. All you get is an intel message saying you didn't get paid because of your standing
It does work, I didn't get paid at hostile, but standing improves by 5. No longer worked at vengeful.
I was asking about how to get out of vengeful status though, not hostile
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Thaago

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2014, 08:54:45 PM »

I have to say - I don't agree with people who are saying you wait around for events. First of all, there are events happening all the time (and I do mean every moment - never have I seen no events).  Second of all, I played as a trader and found even non event runs to be just fine. You just have to be on your toes - finish your run and plan a new one.

If the margins are too slim for what you want, then buy/sell on the black market. The penalties are really small and even the occasional investigation isn't too bad - just manage your reputation if it gets low and avoid *** that faction off for a bit. A little pirate quashing (if they catch you or just opportunistic bounty work) also raises rep spectacularly. This does lock the player out of the high end ships of those factions, as you're basically staying neutral with them. This can be avoided by picking one faction to not do black market trades (usually the faction I buy from, as you can sell in bulk more easily on the black than buy).

I agree that the system needs some more content - more types of events, a bit better price reporting (I'd like to see faction names next to planet events/prices so I don't accidentally load up on a pirate shortage - that rep hit is a bit too nasty). But for me I always have trading to do - just not routes to memorize.
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Kipcha

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2014, 09:10:24 PM »

Trading food gives you a 400% profit margin consistently! Why are we worried about a measly 30% tax?

First of all, its not consistent since it depends solely on events. Try trading food without an event.
Its not a simple 30% tax its actually a 66.6%.
The math has been explained in this thread for non-event trading a couple of times.

I was asking about how to get out of vengeful status though, not hostile
No way to get out of vengeful at the moment. (aside from starting a new character)

I have to say - I don't agree with people who are saying you wait around for events. First of all, there are events happening all the time (and I do mean every moment - never have I seen no events).  Second of all, I played as a trader and found even non event runs to be just fine. You just have to be on your toes - finish your run and plan a new one.
Do you have any actual info on those runs? because i have every space-station between Corvus, Valhalla/Ragnar, Arcadia and Magec recorded and have yet to find any actual profitable run. i have been over the math in this thread http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8430.msg143751#msg143751
here. You are either making very slim margins if you find a resource that is selling without the very aggressive diminishing prices, or no profit at all.

A key example here would be: Arcadia>Agreus station. The station has OreRefinery(2) Which you would think this station consumes Ore and R-Ore while producing Metal and R-Metals. (By the tool tip for "Ore Refinery" and the market page). when this station drops to 50%+ not supplied for ore and rare ore the nearest Ore Mining facility is Magec>New Maxios.

This run should* be profitable so long as % supply is met and not met at the required planets however it is not due to the highly agressive diminishing returns and the 66.6% tariff.

Quote
If the margins are too slim for what you want, then buy/sell on the black market. The penalties are really small and even the occasional investigation isn't too bad - just manage your reputation if it gets low and avoid *** that faction off for a bit.
for black market;
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=8435.msg143753#msg143753
there is a decent breakdown of how the black market effects when using a 50/50 split.
not to mention simply avoiding a faction does not improve your standing with them you either have to go out and kill pirates or trade wholly on the open market.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 09:17:46 PM by Kipcha »
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Ordanen

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2014, 03:30:06 AM »

I've made 200k credits in a single hound, thanks to a specific smuggling route I found. Other than that, ignore what should be a trade run, and focus on events. If something is dirt cheap somewhere, then you may be able to sell it to a station that consumes it.
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Kipcha

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2014, 04:24:02 AM »

I've made 200k credits in a single hound, thanks to a specific smuggling route I found.

And youre not sharing because?

Quote
Other than that, ignore what should be a trade run, and focus on events.
Which has been discussed at length in this thread, it is not about how events make money it is about how to make money outside of events and that Trading in a non-event scenario makes little to no margin of profit than combat in a non-event scenario.

All things being balanced Combat and Trading should* offer roughly similar Credits/Time while Events (of both Combat and Trade) should offer more income than their Non-Event partners.

*this is my personal view, and as Alex has dropped by one of these threads to comment on the state of affairs it appears his vision was to make trade ONLY profitable during events. Since the argue of Credit per hour income is a moot point in a single-player game.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2014, 06:06:35 AM »

I've made 200k credits in a single hound, thanks to a specific smuggling route I found.

And youre not sharing because?

Because he's a smuggler, duh.


I will say that in my run there have been no food shortages in over a year. The economy has apparently adapted and solved that problem by itself. There have been plenty of trade disruptions though, even without my help, so there are still events going on. I'm sure if I wasn't bounty hunting I would have plenty of opportunities to be constantly making money trading.
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Ordanen

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2014, 06:24:10 AM »

Quote
Because he's a smuggler, duh.

Fiiiine, some Sindrian Diktat planets have really, REALLY cheap drugs. At least on my save. The pirates in Corvus are lacking drugs all the time, the price sometimes goes up to 1600 per unit. When you buy drugs for 400, that's a lot of profit. Also, for clarification, the 200k was over several runs, but it was still smuggling in a single hound.
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Sethfcm

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2014, 02:54:48 PM »

I'm just going to wait on mods to correct this/add more/flesh out the trade system, and it's related inter dependencies or mod it myself since Alex's standpoint on the issue is to keep it exactly as it is. I hate it, but whatever.
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Aereto

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2014, 05:36:30 PM »

I'm just going to wait on mods to correct this/add more/flesh out the trade system, and it's related inter dependencies or mod it myself since Alex's standpoint on the issue is to keep it exactly as it is. I hate it, but whatever.
I will be fine putting up with the issue, since economy system is in its infancy, meaning that this is the very first economic implementation.
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Steven Shi

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2014, 08:43:42 PM »

I will be fine putting up with the issue, since economy system is in its infancy, meaning that this is the very first economic implementation.

Yeah, after a weekend with 0.65, I'm thinking the same. There is a basic framework for both combat and trading gameplay but neither approach is fleshed out enough to grab my interest for long. Even if you scale up the number of the worlds and fix the economic pricing, flying freighter from one world to another just isn't fun and smuggling really doesn't feel like smuggling at all atm (no sense of danger, no high profit, no han solo).

I wonder how Elite Dangerous intend to address this issue of shallow sandbox.
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Scuttlebutt

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2015, 12:42:14 AM »

I haven't touched this game in a long while and jumped back in when I read about the newly implemented trading mechanic. I played vanilla SS for about a week trying to do a trader playthrough and I agree with a lot of people in the thread, honest trading right now is just all about event hunting. The tariffs are quite painful at the start too, so smuggling becomes a lot more tempting. I guess this fits the narrative SS is trying to achieve?

I wonder if this would still be an issue once the devs implement a multitude of various trade events firing off simultaneously across the galaxy.
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Agalyon

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Re: Economics glitch (and tariffs are OP)
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2015, 12:03:13 PM »

@ Meric/Kipcha: The 30% tarrif is intended so that trade routes are not profitable, only events are profitable. This is design intent of the game to avoid you having to grind the same trade route all the time.
Which turns the game into "sit around outside of a station waiting for event to pop up"

I think this is definitely true. Regardless of the good intentions of grinding a trade route, it just devolves into waiting instead of grinding. If waiting for events is uniformly better anyway, people are going to keep doing it. But, if there aren't any events, there needs to be something trade oriented for you to do instead of waiting around. Like sure, you could play a bethesda game and go kill stuff while you wait, but if someone wanted to do a game with nothing but trading, it would suck. I mean yeah, nothing but filler would suck too, but no one is going to do that when there's a blatantly better option. Also like Scuttlebutt said, starting off with nothing easy on the low end sucks. You can't merch with no starting money.
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