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[TaLaR]

Right now there is no cool down for flux venting, which creates several situations that give player big advantage over AI that doesn't spam active venting.

- When player uses low rate of fire, long-ranged weapons by venting after each shot/salvo.
- When AI uses low rate of fire weapons (usually long ranged too) against player's shield by venting after each shield hit.
- (not as efficient as above ones) Any situation when you are firing from afar without being immediately threatened

Whole thing seems kind of similar to over-top-speed inertial movement, which was removed as far as i understand exactly because AI couldn't make good use of it.

Possible limitations:
- straight up cool-down
- minimum vent duration
- limit active venting efficiency based on flux you have when you start it (if you use it on low flux, you vent at almost standard rate, but can't fire weapons)
- minimum flux requirement (25%-50%) (not enough on it's own, but might work well with limited vent efficiency point above)

So, what do y'all think?

[ValkyriaL]

A small cooldown would be the best choice if any, as the others would shaft certain factions really hard, as well as it would make the Ai even weaker, the Ai,  in certain ships makes very effective use of active venting spam, such as the hound.

The Ai also fails at reading the situation it is in, is it safe to vent or not? And if the Ai wants to vent, one of these limitations might prevent it from doing so, and it won't vent all all, overload, and die a lot faster than it otherwise would have.
 

[Megas]

Venting speed is already slow enough unless the player gets the skills and perks that speed it up, and abstains from adding too much maximum flux.  If player pays the price for fast venting, he should be rewarded.

The AI is incompetent at flux management.  Short-ranged, high DPS, high flux fleet killer configurations that are absolutely deadly in the player's hands tend to be terrible for AI use.

[NeutroniumFurnace]

Tbh though, I think the AI is fairly competent at its job, I mean, there can always be improvements, but the AI in its current state isn't really broken. There are some exploitable things, but all AI have that. The AI is fairly competent as is.

[TJJ]

I agree, venting between shots is somewhat of an exploit.

Not sure it needs fixing though.

If it were to be fixed, I think a better fix (rather than having yet another cooldown) would be to simply force all weapons to restart their reload cycle.

[Thaago]

Hmm... not sure if restarting the reset cycle is good (think of missiles with extremely long reloads), but what if all reloads were paused? Almost the same effect, but I think a little better.

[TaLaR]

Agreed, pausing reload feels about right, as far as offensive use is concerned.
Though if defensive use remains valid, AI need to be more aware of that (like not firing single Gauss cannon at shielded target and spam-venting if you try to do it yourself)...

[Linnis]

Instead of a cool down for venting, a delay before you actually start venting effectively would solve the problem, like first 1 second venting speed go from none to 100%.

[Megas]

What is the benefit of venting over simply lowering shields and not firing weapons?  Double dissipation, at the cost of not firing weapons or raising shields while venting?  If venting gets weakened (and I do not get Power Grid Modulation 5), why should I bother venting when I can lower shields and not fire?  I least I have the option of raising shields and fighting back if I get intercepted while my flux cools down.  Even the AI does this if it forces its opponent (usually, the player) to withdraw.

Meanwhile, the AI simply builds up flux to about 80 to 90 percent as it attacks.  Then, if the AI ship does not get away, it tends to turtle up, and the AI toggles its shield with inhuman timing to fight as best it can without overloading.  AI works well with missiles or flux efficient weapons like beams and some ballistics but badly with short-ranged, high flux cost weapons like blasters and plasma cannons.

I think the best solution would be to make the AI either smarter and/or more brave, willing to take a little damage if it means being able to soak more damage later.

[TJJ]

What is the benefit of venting over simply lowering shields and not firing weapons?  Double dissipation, at the cost of not firing weapons or raising shields while venting?  If venting gets weakened (and I do not get Power Grid Modulation 5), why should I bother venting when I can lower shields and not fire?  I least I have the option of raising shields and fighting back if I get intercepted while my flux cools down.  Even the AI does this if it forces its opponent (usually, the player) to withdraw.

Meanwhile, the AI simply builds up flux to about 80 to 90 percent as it attacks.  Then, if the AI ship does not get away, it tends to turtle up, and the AI toggles its shield with inhuman timing to fight as best it can without overloading.  AI works well with missiles or flux efficient weapons like beams and some ballistics but badly with short-ranged, high flux cost weapons like blasters and plasma cannons.

I think the best solution would be to make the AI either smarter and/or more brave, willing to take a little damage if it means being able to soak more damage later.

This thread is about spam-venting when at very low flux.

By doing this you effectively double the flux dissipation rate of your ship, with very little loss in damage output (as much of the venting occurs during the reload cycle of your weapons)

[Megas]

The penalty of "vent spam" is shields are down.  I often eat damage when I exploit this.  (This is one reason why I love Damage Control 10 - effectively unlimited hit points, since few things hit hard enough for one-hit kill.)  In case of ships with no shield (e.g., Hound), they have few enough OP that they need them for big guns and hullmods that boost survivability (like more speed) instead of more flux when vent spam is an option.

The AI should exploit it too, but it is too cowardly to do so even when it is relatively safe.

P.S.  Vent spam forgoes the flux supercharge damage bonus energy weapons get, and that bonus is often useful.

[Nooblies]

Vent spam can feel a little cheesy, and it isn't something you're likely to see the AI do. Pausing reloads while venting is a logical from a lore-based perspective (or is for me anyway), and would reduce the effectiveness of such a strategy. It would also make the behaviour more of a trade-off, trading damage for reduced flux and greater ability to shield oneself, which is preferable to a straight up performance increase in its current status. Such an implementation would also only effect the specific spam-venting behaviour, and would be preferable to a cool down for venting, which could become very annoying and possibly introduce more complications for the AI.

As such, +1 for pausing reloads while venting.

[Megas]

I do not think vent spam is cheesy.  It is the logical conclusion of the venting rules, even if the AI is too cowardly to exploit them fully.  If the ship has an opening to vent, it should take advantage of the opportunity unless the ship wants the flux to boost energy weapon damage or does not want to waste time if the enemy is almost dead.

I do not want reload pause or reset during venting.  I would need to calculate in my head if a combined vent plus reload is faster than passive dissipation.

[Linnis]

Except venting looks stupid and it feels stupid, If animation where more awesome, none of us would complain about this 

[Thaago]

Except venting looks stupid and it feels stupid, If animation where more awesome, none of us would complain about this