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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.8f  (Read 627054 times)

orost

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #405 on: May 05, 2015, 03:11:34 PM »

I don't know if the Jesuit's system is supposed to let it phase through the middle of an Onslaught, but the AI seems convinced that it can do that, while often it cannot. It results in the Jesuit crashing into the battleship and exploding immediately after. While somewhat effective as a suicide bombing tactic, I have a feeling that this isn't how it's supposed to work.

I think this happening might have something to do with toggling shields while the Jesuit is on top of where they appear, but I'm not sure, it's difficult to test.
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tchan

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #406 on: May 08, 2015, 08:48:56 PM »

I finally got my hands on my first Jesuit Elucidator, and I just love the Priwen Burst! 

I've been practicing bursting at the optimal time, looking at what flux numbers to do it while not overloading.

After 10 minutes of this, when I right clicked to do another burst, this time it sent me FLYING BACKWARDS over a length equivalent of 2 or 3 Schism drives worth, then it did the Priwen Burst.

I have no clue what happened.  I tried to redo it on purpose, but it seems to be random.  I did a search on the forum for keywords "backward" "opposite" and "retreat" on The Knights Templar section but nothing relevant came up.

I'm sorry if this was mentioned before.  I'll keep trying to reproduce this odd effect.

[edit]  Ok able to reproduce it 50% of the time.  It happens if I'm going forward, but not actively accelerating, and touched an enemy's shield at the same time as I'm clicking to do the Priwen Burst.  It sends me flying very far backwards.  Is this intentional?  I don't remember seeing enemy ships doing this o.o
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 09:25:45 PM by tchan »
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #407 on: May 08, 2015, 09:48:52 PM »

I suggest alerting Alex about the bug, considering you're the first person to get a reproducible process to trigger it.  It's a problem with fixed-duration phase cloaks.
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tchan

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #408 on: May 08, 2015, 10:10:55 PM »

Roger that.

Btw, really enjoying all the great work you've done :)

Your Templars are wrecking the face of everyone in SS+, pretty much doubling or more their weight in enemy casualties :D   It's too bad I can't join them in their crusades to PURGE THE HEATHENS OF THEIR UNCLEAN WAYS.  *ahem*
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #409 on: May 08, 2015, 11:23:46 PM »

You actually can.  Just blow up backwards heathens ships in a crusade location.
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Noxxys

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #410 on: May 10, 2015, 12:44:03 PM »

Your Templars are wrecking the face of everyone in SS+, pretty much doubling or more their weight in enemy casualties :D
Yes, they are too much overpowered for my taste. I can't do much against them, so I'm removing this mod and starting a new game.
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Euqocelbbog

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #411 on: May 10, 2015, 01:13:49 PM »

Your Templars are wrecking the face of everyone in SS+, pretty much doubling or more their weight in enemy casualties :D
Yes, they are too much overpowered for my taste. I can't do much against them, so I'm removing this mod and starting a new game.
Considering that they're meant to basically be an endgame challenge after you've become tired of kicking in the faces of everyone else, the Templar aren't really overpowered for their role.
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Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #412 on: May 10, 2015, 03:22:25 PM »

Templars are power creep to my ships, once their weapons fall into my hands, just like Neutrino.  Much as I like the quality of Templars, I do not use them anymore unless I want to play with godships.
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sotanaht

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #413 on: May 10, 2015, 07:46:57 PM »

I just never use templar weapons in normal games.  I already know something like 3 aerondights on a ravana will kill everything effortlessly, including templars. 

My problem with templars in Nexerelin is they are too uniform.  Fighting the same templar fleet 100+ times gets pretty boring.  Most other factions have enough hulls to keep at least some interest, as long as you don't overpower them to the point that what they field doesn't even matter.  Templars have exactly one hull per ship class (if you separate corvette and frigate), and the majority of the challenge in fighting them comes from their ship systems and clarants, so the loadout variations don't really do that much to keep them distinct.

On a different note, the templar explosion (right click) is very often used by the AI to dodge projectiles.  I'm sure this is more a side effect of hacking phase cloak to do something completely different from the original intention, but I'm wondering IF it was possible, would you remove this function?  While I'm on the subject, the fact that their bursts shut down systems and cause burnouts completely disregarding shields and sometimes even phase cloaks doesn't seem like something they should be doing.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #414 on: May 10, 2015, 08:38:11 PM »

Shields do, in fact, block most of a priwen burst, and phasing also blocks a major chunk of it.  EMP reduction hullmods are a must against them, either way, and any ship that doesn't rely on shields needs auto repair unit.  And yes, they do use it to dodge projectiles when prudent; this is intended behavior.  Arondights are being nerfed quite a bit in the next update, and to be fair the Ravana is sort of OP, so I'm not sure that should be a concern either.

Templars are not designed for Nexerelin; compatibility with Nexerelin is more of a formality on my part than something I seriously pursue.  You'll have to talk to Histidine if you want special treatment for them in Nexerelin.  Outside of Nexerelin, their dynamic actually works as I want it to.
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sotanaht

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #415 on: May 10, 2015, 11:09:39 PM »

Shields do, in fact, block most of a priwen burst, and phasing also blocks a major chunk of it.  EMP reduction hullmods are a must against them, either way, and any ship that doesn't rely on shields needs auto repair unit.  And yes, they do use it to dodge projectiles when prudent; this is intended behavior.  Arondights are being nerfed quite a bit in the next update, and to be fair the Ravana is sort of OP, so I'm not sure that should be a concern either.

Templars are not designed for Nexerelin; compatibility with Nexerelin is more of a formality on my part than something I seriously pursue.  You'll have to talk to Histidine if you want special treatment for them in Nexerelin.  Outside of Nexerelin, their dynamic actually works as I want it to.

He's already doing a lot of work to try to make them workable.  That problem is less about Nexerelin and more about fighting them repetitively.  Maybe if you have them designed so you only face one fleet every <long period of time> I guess it wouldn't be much of an issue.

And didn't Arondights just get buffed?  Anyway the Ravana is good with them because it has 3 and can aim them via manuevering jets, but I would expect a Dominator, Onclaught, or Conquest would still be quite effective with them.

I don't think I've tried fitting my large ships with full anti-emp mods.  Will insulated engines and resistant flux conduits actually stop Paladins from causing flameouts through shields after ramming and bursting on the FONT of my AI ships?
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #416 on: May 11, 2015, 12:23:41 AM »

A fully-charged point-blank burst from a Paladin?  Probably not.  Most other types of bursts?  Yes.  Also, the wider your shield arc is, the more effective it is against those bursts.

Arondights and Galatines are getting the hard flux mechanic nerfed significantly; they will remain powerful but not insane like they were before.

Maybe if you have them designed so you only face one fleet every <long period of time> I guess it wouldn't be much of an issue.
They are few and far between in vanilla. As for Nexerelin, that's not really my problem because Nexerelin is what controls how often their fleets spawn.
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Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #417 on: May 11, 2015, 07:09:58 AM »

@ sotanaht:  If Templar weapons are in the game, I will use them.  Not using them when they are available is grand stupidity on my part.

Without Flux Dynamics perks, Dominator does not have the flux stats to use more than one Arondight at a time.  Even if your Dominator has 40 to 50+ capacitors, the OP cost to support two is too high.  Onslaught can only use one Arondight comfortably.  I tried using two, but frequently could not fire them at the same time due to limited flux capacity.  Conquest is the only standard ship that can support multiple Arondights, and it is totally sick against big ships, but a Arondight Conquest gives up enough that it is more vulnerable to fighters than a more balanced Conquest would better defend against.

Multiple Galatines are more effective than one Arondight, and they are easier to use.  Use Arondight only if your ship can support it comfortably.  For a Paladin, Arondight is great.  Onslaught can use one decently.  Conquest is nasty with two; four is possible but not a good idea.  Dominator should not use Arondight, and stick with Galatines or standard heavy weapons instead.
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ahrenjb

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #418 on: May 11, 2015, 11:05:26 AM »

I don't know, for me and in my game universe the Templars have played the role they were intended to play very well. By the time my fleet is powerful enough to take on Templars regularly and I start getting my hands on plenty of their weapons I'm basically in the end game. Even if I get a couple early on, they're difficult to utilize without high level skills, rendering the point moot. In the current game, there isn't anything left to do once you have a fleet that's powerful enough to go head on with a full size Templar battle fleet. So, really it's game over. Start a new one.

I imagine eventually as new mechanics are added to the core game this will change and Templars role will have to evolve slightly. Until then I see them as a great colorful addition to my universe and they seem to do exactly what DR intended them to.
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Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #419 on: May 11, 2015, 12:32:40 PM »

In the current game, there isn't anything left to do once you have a fleet that's powerful enough to go head on with a full size Templar battle fleet. So, really it's game over. Start a new one.
For me, that is when the game really begins, when I reach endgame at about level 50+ and enjoy full power.  Until then, it is a boring grind while my character is incomplete and weak.

All the Templars do for me is make my ships, regardless of faction origin, even more overpowered than normal.  My ships do evil things when I pick up overpowered mod weapons.
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