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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.8f  (Read 626875 times)

Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #390 on: April 18, 2015, 03:32:50 PM »

I must play with ShaderLib effects off (mod enabled but all effects disabled) because I have no GPU.

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It's somewhat surprising to me that this bug, which has existed for half the better part of a year, is only noticed now.
What bug would that be?
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Nanao-kun

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #391 on: April 18, 2015, 07:04:56 PM »

I must play with ShaderLib effects off (mod enabled but all effects disabled) because I have no GPU.

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It's somewhat surprising to me that this bug, which has existed for half the better part of a year, is only noticed now.
What bug would that be?
It seems Priwen Burst is usable only once per fight.  After I (or the enemy AI) successfully use the burst, it cannot be used again for the rest of the battle.  The Priwen substitute used by the Martyr and fighters recharge and can be used more than once.
This one, considering turning ShaderLib off causes Templars to bug out.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #392 on: April 18, 2015, 09:50:25 PM »

I must play with ShaderLib effects off (mod enabled but all effects disabled) because I have no GPU.

Quote
It's somewhat surprising to me that this bug, which has existed for half the better part of a year, is only noticed now.
What bug would that be?
It seems Priwen Burst is usable only once per fight.  After I (or the enemy AI) successfully use the burst, it cannot be used again for the rest of the battle.  The Priwen substitute used by the Martyr and fighters recharge and can be used more than once.
This one, considering turning ShaderLib off causes Templars to bug out.
I play with shaderlib disabled in the config file and never seen this bug
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Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #393 on: April 19, 2015, 06:51:41 AM »

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This one, considering turning ShaderLib off causes Templars to bug out.
"bug out" is not helpful.

I experienced no bugs with ShaderLib disabled in v0.9.4b, and none in v0.9.4d.  In v0.9.4c, Priwen limited to once per fight was the only bug I encountered, and I do not know if disabled ShaderLib effects caused it.
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Nanao-kun

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #394 on: April 19, 2015, 08:40:12 AM »

Quote
This one, considering turning ShaderLib off causes Templars to bug out.
"bug out" is not helpful.

I experienced no bugs with ShaderLib disabled in v0.9.4b, and none in v0.9.4d.  In v0.9.4c, Priwen limited to once per fight was the only bug I encountered, and I do not know if disabled ShaderLib effects caused it.
"- Templars no longer break with shaders disabled"

Is what the changelog says.
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Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #395 on: April 19, 2015, 09:35:58 AM »

I read that too.  That would imply that Templars would be unplayable (i.e., game would not load).  Templars were playable, albeit with bug(s).  The one Priwen burst per game could have been either a new feature/nerf or a bug.  I guessed it was a bug (before d fixed it) since it used to be unlimited, and the AI behaved like it was.
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Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #396 on: April 19, 2015, 10:26:41 AM »

Feedback on the update.

Priwen bursts:
AI is only smarter in that it bursts only when it thinks it can be hit.  Firing a short-ranged weapon at it from more than a screen away no longer triggers a burst.  This is an improvement.  It can still be baited into wasting its burst by firing anything from max range, while your attacking ship backpedals, to avoid or mitigate damage from a high-powered burst.


Weapon tweaks:
Rhon Laser exchanged DPS and turn speed for more range.  In my experience, this is more of an upgrade than a downgrade or even sidegrade.  I do not need Advanced Optics anymore to kite with Rhons.  Rhon Laser plus IPDAI is still disgustingly overpowered as PD.  Rhon remains more powerful than High Intensity Laser, and it fires quickly enough that Advanced Turret Gyros is not necessary, despite slower turn speed.

Sentenia Assault Cannon was noticeably weakened, but it is still very powerful.  It remains overpowered when compared to standard weapons, despite less DPS than Heavy Blaster, and is still usually a no-brainer for non-Templar ships to use if they can support it, due to 800 range and homing.  Compared to other Templar weapons, Sentenia was weakened enough that is no longer supreme.

Longinus Heavy Laser kills unarmored ships faster than other medium Templar weapons.  Still a beam, and takes a while to overpower shields.  Its flux costs are high on non-Templar ships.  Even on ships that can use Longinus effectively, I prefer Sentenia or Galatine instead, unless I want a beam-only configuration.

Juger Heavy Cannon feels useful.  The arcing murders missiles and fighters, and does respectable, if not great, damage on a direct hit.  Juger seems to be designed as a multipurpose swiss-army knife than a simple beatstick.  If I want a simple weapon that kills enemies efficiently, there are better alternatives to the Juger.

Joyese Fractal Laser is worth using thanks to more damage combined with weaker Sentenias.  It is damaging enough to overload or kill smaller or weakened ships in one full blast.

Arondight Accelerator is very powerful now, maybe to the point of unfair.  A direct hit will incapacitate most ships, regardless what defense was hit.  Can compete with multiple Galatines.  Tried it on an Onslaught, still brutally effective, though multiple Galatines may be better.  Dominator cannot fire two at a time without at least 40-something capacitors.

ROLAND System was deadly before, but with regeneration (and max Missile Specializaton), it competes with the other Templar heavyweights.  It can alpha strike like no other weapon short of a few other overpowered mod weapons.  Compared to other Templar weapons, it is a choice of whether you want to pile on the damage now or have less but more sustainable damage throughout the fight.  Non-Templar ships with large missile mounts can receive a significant power upgrade by mounting a ROLAND, especially the Astral.

Suggestion:  If ROLAND can regenerate, let the medium Clarent tube regenerate too.


Other
Change to High Maintenence is nice.  I can support more and/or bigger Templar ships comfortably.

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Made Templar shields particularly effective against beams
It seems too effective.  An all-beam Paragon with Rhons and Longinus struggled against a Paladin.  A Paragon with Sentenias and Galatines crushed the Paladin.
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Nanao-kun

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #397 on: April 19, 2015, 03:02:44 PM »

It seems too effective.  An all-beam Paragon with Rhons and Longinus struggled against a Paladin.  A Paragon with Sentenias and Galatines crushed the Paladin.
Isn't the Paragon more of a supercapital in terms of strength since it outclasses all other vanilla capital ships? The Paladin would count as a capital ship, and the Paragon would be ranked higher. The Archbishop is more of a carrier and doesn't get far without support. Perhaps wait for the teased Templar capital ship?

What do you mean by struggled by the way? Did it lose?
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Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #398 on: April 19, 2015, 04:00:51 PM »

The game considers Paragon a capital.  Paladin is a cruiser.

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What do you mean by struggled by the way? Did it lose?
It took longer, maybe about thirty seconds to a minute, despite higher DPS, for the Rhon and Longinus Paragon to kill the Paladin than it did with Sentenias and Galatine, and the Paragon got reduced to less than half hull.  With non-beam Templar weapons, the Paragon crushes the Paladin with only minor damage taken.
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Nanao-kun

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #399 on: April 19, 2015, 04:21:37 PM »

The game considers Paragon a capital.  Paladin is a cruiser.

Quote
What do you mean by struggled by the way? Did it lose?
It took longer, maybe about thirty seconds to a minute, despite higher DPS, for the Rhon and Longinus Paragon to kill the Paladin than it did with Sentenias and Galatine, and the Paragon got reduced to less than half hull.  With non-beam Templar weapons, the Paragon crushes the Paladin with only minor damage taken.

I said in terms of strength.
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Histidine

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #400 on: April 19, 2015, 09:36:29 PM »

I don't know if the same values are being used in the final version, but DR said a month or so back that the Templar shields would further reduce beam damage by their normal damage absorption - so at zero flux, a beam will only do 10% of its listed damage, with the underlying hull taking 1% of nominal damage after the shield has absorbed the other 9%.

I didn't bring it up at the time, but this seems a bit excessive.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #401 on: April 19, 2015, 10:14:54 PM »

I changed it to a flat 75% reduction since then.
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orost

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #402 on: April 27, 2015, 05:20:15 PM »

Bug: Arondight projectiles sometimes pass right through small targets without shields (like Hounds) without doing any damage.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #403 on: April 27, 2015, 06:11:30 PM »

The good news: It is not difficult to fix
The bad news: All scripted-collision weapons in every mod will have this problem
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sotanaht

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #404 on: April 28, 2015, 08:06:57 AM »

There are few things more satisfying than guiding a swarm of hostile Clarents into the enemy Archbishop right as their guidance shuts off.  Except maybe doing it to a Martyr that just will not hold still and die.

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