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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.8f  (Read 626930 times)

Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #375 on: March 29, 2015, 07:06:38 AM »

Quote
If you look at Clarents vs Reapers solely from a damage per OP perspective, they're indeed vastly inferior. But you can't forget that they're extremely dissimilar weapons that cannot be compared this way. A Reaper is fairly short-range and requires careful aim and positioning to connect and can be easily dodged or repelled, while a Clarent has longer range, can be fired from any orientation, never misses, is much faster, can retarget and can recover from repelling such as that by a weak Priwen Burst. It's a very reliable "press button to kill target" weapon and when your loadout requires that it's easily worth the OP.
I look at Clarents much like Harpoon MRMs.  Very deadly, but too few ammo to make it worth using in all but short fights.  I think Harpoon racks and pods cost too much OP for what they do.  Clarents are simply high performance Harpoons or Atropos that cost as much if not more OP.  If I want to use Clarents, I will grab two or three Smiter wings and a non-Templar carrier.

Quote
Personally i never had trouble with supplies in my Templar campaign. Then again, most of the time i only deployed a single Martyr to take down everything from fighters to destroyers, sometimes isolated cruisers. I brought the Paladin (then later i went full Jesuit pack) to take care of the big ones. By doing this method, my expenditures in supplies were very low.
It was tolerable with smaller ships, up to Crusader.  But, if I wanted all Templar fleet like NPCs, it was impossible.  The only way I could thrive as a Templar was to use stock Domain ships armed with Templar weapons.  Occasionally, I would use a Jesuit, Crusader or a few Smiter wings without too much pain.  However, if I wanted to use a Paladin or especially Archbishop it would consume all of my supplies, and I would not be able to buy enough replacement supplies.  The only markets I can buy supplies in bulk from are Templars and Pirates, but they were not enough for a proper Templar fleet.


Re: Joyeuse
It is fun to use, and player can snipe with it.  But the DPS is not much higher than Sentenia, sort of like Heavy Blaster vs. Plasma Cannon.  What is more, Sentenia tracks the enemy, but Joyeuse does not.  Also, Sentenia has no ammo, but Joyeuse does, and I have ran out of Joyeuse ammo and got stuck with low DPS.  I wrote elsewhere that I prefer Heavy Blaster over Plasma Cannon for most ships because Heavy Blaster performs nearly as well for much less OP.  Same deal with Sentenia vs. Joyeuse.

Re: Sentenia
Quote
However the Blaster have the advantage of dealing a single instance of high damage (500 to 10x110 spread all over the ship) which tends to be better at cracking open the armor faster.
I need to aim with a blaster, and I miss enough that getting full DPS cannot always be relied on.  With Sentenia, I rarely need to aim and I often get the full DPS.  With more range, I can kite from even further back.  Range is one of the most powerful stats in Starsector.

On a Hyperion, if I use blasters, I need IR Pulse Lasers for anti-fighter.  With Sentenias, I do not need any other weapon to kill a wide variety of ships.  Sentenia's only weakness is long windup, which may give the AI enough time to raise shields to block any Sentenia salvos Hyperion may try to fire after teleportation.  If I want to kill a Paragon with Combat 10, I am not sure Sentenias would work, and would probably need to use blasters which do work.  Phase ships are a real pain to kill with Sentenias alone.  On the other hand, if I use blasters, I risked getting instakilled by a Priwen Burst from a Templar ship if I make one mistake.  Sentenia is much safer to use against Templar ships (and many other non-Templar ships) than blasters.

Re: Upcoming changes.
Arondight Accelerator needs to shoot faster and/or lose the ammo, not do more damage and cost more flux (when it already generates lots).  You can give infinite DPS vs. shields and they will overload the same as a shot with less overkill damage.

Change to High Maintenance should help for a faction that relies mostly on measly combat drops (buying supplies is not an option if most markets refuse to trade).  Extremely High Maintenance made big Templar ships too difficult to use without a steady and generous source of supplies.  Why use Paladin, let alone Archbishop, when I can devastate fleets with a Domain ship armed with Templar weapons?

Other comments
Player needs high to max +OP skills and Optimized Assembly perk to make Templar weapons usable on non-Templar ships.

Clarents are at their strongest when used by fighters, who can launch never-ending salvos of them.  Clarents from bigger ships are fearful, but limited, not unlike Harpoon salvos from a Dominator with Combat 10.
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #376 on: March 29, 2015, 09:46:05 AM »

Some comments from a slightly different perspective: Personally, I find heavy blasters to be vastly superior to the Sentenia, especially for anti-fighter work; the proposed nerf to the Sentenia will likely make me simply stop using it unless I really need the range and have way more ordnance points than I can otherwise spend.  I think the main reason I'm getting such different results from Megas is that I'm usually looking at putting them into turrets, and the auto fire AI is surprisingly accurate with heavy blasters.

Missiles: The one-shot clarent, if you have missile skills enough to get two shots, is pretty good; I'll happily use those in place of torpedos.  The two shot version, by contrast, is... very rarely worth the ordnance points.  Personally, I'd suggest assigning OP costs to clarent launchers on the assumption that they'll primarily be used on flagships with player skills.  The clarent medium launcher I've used on exactly one ship; a large capital ship where I didn't need the missiles, but they were a convenient way to blow up fleeing frigates that had managed to outrange my main guns.  I've never used the large clarent launcher; regenerating ammo will make it something I'll actually seriously consider.

Unsure on the incoming laser changes.  Maybe split the Rhon into two versions, one that's lower DPS but better tracking (and meant to be used as PD with the PDAI hull mod)?  It is one of the few Templar weapons that I've found to be generally usable, primarily as point defense on phase ships.  (On non-phase ships the flux cost is too high and you have to start doing the dance of "Are there missiles I want killed?  If yes, turn on PD guns, if no, turn them off so I don't overload", which I don't find very fun.)
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #377 on: March 29, 2015, 11:04:56 AM »

All I did was slightly reduce its DPS and give it the flux efficiency of a heavy blaster.  It trades shot power for range and homing projectiles.
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Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #378 on: March 29, 2015, 11:39:39 AM »

There are very few warships that I would not mount the Sentenia on if they can use them.  They include Tempest (because they give up too much to support two), and Vigilance if I want to use Pilums, and possibly Hyperion if I need blasters to counter some problem ships (e.g., Paragon or Doom with Combat 10).  Even on Vigilance, I will mount Sentenia and trade Pilums for Salamander.  I think Sentenias are extremely overpowered to the point that nothing else competes, barring absurdly overpowered stuff like Neutrio's Phased Array Cannon, and Sentenias and most other Templar weapons are extremely common if I have access to Templar markets.  I mount Sentenias on almost everything.  On a Paragon, you can bet I will mount ten Sentenias on it.  Well, maybe not, eight Sentenias and two Galatines.  I would mount Sentenia on the central mount of a Paladin if I could, but since I cannot, I mount Mjolnir, Storm Needler, or (rarely) Arondight Accelerator instead.

@ Dark.Revenant:  That was another reason - not only more range, DPS, and ease-of-use than blaster, but also better efficiency.
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sotanaht

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #379 on: March 30, 2015, 07:22:49 PM »

double clarents + expanded missile racks + +1 missile.  6 of those on a single frigate (thanks to intersteller imperium), 24 clarents in rapid fire kills most battleships.  Of course the frigate is absolutely useless after that, so retreat, and call in another one.

Honestly I don't expect anything balanced from this mod.  The only reason I'm even playing with templar stuff is because they kept getting wiped out in my nexerelin game before I was strong enough to fight them, so now I'm building them up manually.

edit: the Arondight takes the cake for OP weapons though.  One shot disables destroyers one way or the other, 2 for crusers, and 3 for battleships.  Lucky the templar can't mount more than one at a time, the only way you can stop a ship with 3 of those is to swarm it, and with the range you can forget about doing that in a fleet setting.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 01:41:44 AM by sotanaht »
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sotanaht

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #380 on: April 02, 2015, 01:37:40 AM »

I'm finding Templar ships to be EXTREMELY weak to the Tachyon Lance.

I'm not 100% clear on how the templar shields work with regards to damage types, but barring templar weapons, I've found that JUST Tachyon lances are extremely effective at killing templar ships.  Not just disabling like you would expect, but actually killing them.  

With 3 Tachyon lances on a Ravana (mayorate), I can solo any templar fleet.  They SHOULD surround and kill me, but they never do.  Considering how thoroughly templars wreck my AI fleets, this is pretty much how I've been fighting them.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 02:57:32 PM by sotanaht »
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Eternity

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4b
« Reply #381 on: April 08, 2015, 06:17:41 AM »

Hi there,

Just a BIG thank to the author(s) of this MOD !!! Impressive works on behavior, rendering, weapons and so on !!!! Keep up this awesome work !

Now, I have only one focus, improve my skills/fleets/weapons config to match at least Knight templar fleets and with luck retrieve some of their ships ;-)

Looking forward to your new releases ;-)

Once again many thanks !
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Dark.Revenant

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[0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4c
« Reply #382 on: April 17, 2015, 05:53:03 PM »

Lots of balance updates and AI improvements.


Download The Knights Templar 0.9.4c
Download Mirror
(Requires LazyLib 2.0b)
(Requires ShaderLib Beta v1.06) (Updated!)
(Supported by Starsector+ 2.7.6) (Updated!)
(Supported by Nexerelin 0.3.6b) (Updated!)

We also recommend Version Checker 1.4b to notify you when an update is ready.

Note: This mod uses custom shader effects.  If you suffer performance issues, adjust or disable these effects in Templars/data/config/templarShaders.json


Change Log
Version 0.9.4c
- Priwen Burst AI added (bursts will be a lot smarter!)
- Rhon Laser DPS reduced to 300 from 375; range increased to 600 from 500; turn rate decreased to 30 from 100
- Merced Cannon flux per shot increased to 80 from 75 (flux/second is 375 -> 400)
- Clarent MRM HP reduced to 300 from 500
- Longinus Heavy Laser flux per second increased to 1000 from 900; turn rate decreased to 30 from 50
- Sentenia Assault Cannon damage decreased to 100 from 110; flux per shot increased to 140 from 120 (dps is 506 -> 460, flux/second is 552 -> 644)
- Juger Heavy Cannon damage increased to 2000 from 1850; maximum arc damage increased to 600 from 370; maximum total arc damage increased to 1500 from 740 (effective dps is 811 -> 1041)
- Joyeuse Fractal Laser damage increased to 6x900 from 6x850; flux per attack increased to 7000 from 6000 (effective dps is 850 -> 900, flux/second is 857 -> 1000)
- Arondight Accelerator damage increased to 3000 from 2000; flux per shot increased to 9000 from 7000; ammo recovery increased by 50% (effective shield-hit dps is 435 -> 522, effective armor-hit dps is 1009 -> 1252, effective armor-hit dps (w/o flux) is 487 -> 730, flux/second is 609 -> 783)
- ROLAND HP reduced to 900 from 1200
- ROLAND System now regenerates 1 ammo per minute
- Templar CR stats improved
- Made Templar shields particularly effective against beams
- Extremely High Maintenance changed to High Maintenance
- TwigLib compatibility improved
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Ranakastrasz

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4c
« Reply #383 on: April 17, 2015, 08:03:51 PM »

The most obvious issue I ran into trying to maintain a Templar Fleet was not the lack of supplies to purchase, as 5k+ were usually available, but the lack of cargo space. I have to run a fleet of a single ship, dock at an unguarded enemy station, and buy as many cargo-haulers as I can manage. Templar ships require non-templar ships to support their logistics. Well, higher level ones might have enough cargo capacity, but a single Martyr has 25 capacity, which can't let it carry away loot, and if a battle goes badly without being fatal, you easily take 30-50 supplies to fix it.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4c
« Reply #384 on: April 17, 2015, 08:19:06 PM »

They're not really intended to be playable; they're more like bonus ships if you capture them.
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Megas

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4c
« Reply #385 on: April 18, 2015, 10:19:38 AM »

I have not played the latest version enough in Nexerelin to write complete feedback, but I noticed something that may or may not be a bug:

It seems Priwen Burst is usable only once per fight.  After I (or the enemy AI) successfully use the burst, it cannot be used again for the rest of the battle.  The Priwen substitute used by the Martyr and fighters recharge and can be used more than once.

Enemy Templars are much less dangerous when they can only burst once per fight, and they often waste it when at low flux (because they assume it is unlimited as before).

They're not really intended to be playable; they're more like bonus ships if you capture them.
Not in Nexerelin, where I can play as them.  The challenge is getting some of the Domain tech so I can use more efficient substitutes, such as Gemini fleets for Smiter wing domination.
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Nanao-kun

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4c
« Reply #386 on: April 18, 2015, 01:43:25 PM »

Not in Nexerelin, where I can play as them.  The challenge is getting some of the Domain tech so I can use more efficient substitutes, such as Gemini fleets for Smiter wing domination.
But that's Nexerelin, not Starsector/Starsector+.
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Dark.Revenant

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[0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #387 on: April 18, 2015, 02:04:09 PM »

It's somewhat surprising to me that this bug, which has existed for the better part of a year, is only noticed now.

Basically, if ShaderLib is disabled, the Templars break in a variety of interesting ways.  Unfortunately, the fix reduces performance.  So have fun with that.



Download The Knights Templar 0.9.4d
Download Mirror
(Requires LazyLib 2.0b)
(Requires ShaderLib Beta v1.06)
(Supported by Starsector+ 2.7.6)
(Supported by Nexerelin 0.3.6b)

We also recommend Version Checker 1.4b to notify you when an update is ready.

Note: This mod uses custom shader effects.  If you suffer performance issues, adjust or disable these effects in Templars/data/config/templarShaders.json


Change Log
Version 0.9.4d (April 18, 2015)
- New Excalibur Drive explosion charge sounds
- Templars no longer break with shaders disabled
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 03:47:20 PM by Dark.Revenant »
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Nanao-kun

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #388 on: April 18, 2015, 02:41:40 PM »

I've never played with ShaderLib off so yeah,
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: [0.65.2a] The Knights Templar v0.9.4d
« Reply #389 on: April 18, 2015, 03:31:30 PM »

I've never played with ShaderLib off so yeah,
I have and have never noticed anything off about the Templars
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