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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.8f  (Read 626952 times)

Nanao-kun

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #225 on: January 11, 2015, 10:57:41 AM »

So I wondered what would happen if you used other ships to create a Templar siege engine. The result is this. 12 Secace Autocannons, 2 Arondight Accelerators, 7 Galatines, 4 Merced Cannons, 4 Sentenias and 12 Longinus Lasers. I'd have Rhon Lasers fitted for PD but then I'd need the PD AI and that's neuter the mass of other small guns aboard this monster. So instead I've used Neutrino Disruptors. For light missile support, Neutrino missile launchers top it off. That said, the disruptors do nothing against Clarent missiles, they track far too well (disruptors work like graviton beams, spinning missiles out of control). And the best part? It spent most of it's time overloaded in the face of an Archbishop and a few Jesuits.
Well yeah, the Templar ships have the advantage of the Excalibur Core after all. -50% weapon flux costs is a huge difference. :P
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Silver Silence

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #226 on: January 11, 2015, 11:52:20 AM »

The enemy Templar railguns were spiking my flux so even though I have a pretty deep flux reserve, I could max it out pretty quick and then the Templar guns would push me over the edge and cause a hefty overload, even with 50% overload reduction. Actually took enough Clarents to the face to be resorting to the hull repair skill keeping me at 50% HP. This thing unfairly destroys any other faction, but the Templar still wreck it.  :D I've run Neutrino ships this hot on flux instability before, usually the extreme passive dissipation means I can dump the flux in seconds, especially with the faster venting perk. But no, my reactions were a little slow and I wasn't expecting the Templar weaponry to be having a noticeable effect on flux because it was such a massive reserve. I guess the bonus flux damage is percentage based to make it scalable. Just means that against Neutrino ships, they punch well beyond their weight.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #227 on: January 11, 2015, 12:05:03 PM »

The enemy Templar railguns were spiking my flux so even though I have a pretty deep flux reserve, I could max it out pretty quick and then the Templar guns would push me over the edge and cause a hefty overload, even with 50% overload reduction. Actually took enough Clarents to the face to be resorting to the hull repair skill keeping me at 50% HP. This thing unfairly destroys any other faction, but the Templar still wreck it.  :D I've run Neutrino ships this hot on flux instability before, usually the extreme passive dissipation means I can dump the flux in seconds, especially with the faster venting perk. But no, my reactions were a little slow and I wasn't expecting the Templar weaponry to be having a noticeable effect on flux because it was such a massive reserve. I guess the bonus flux damage is percentage based to make it scalable. Just means that against Neutrino ships, they punch well beyond their weight.
It doesn't scale, but it does go up surprisingly quickly if you get surrounded.
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Silver Silence

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #228 on: January 11, 2015, 12:14:29 PM »

Being surrounded didn't seem like much of a biggie as most Templar fleets predominantly contain Jesuits and this was maybe the third or fourth Archbishop I had fought. The ship's system was the phase teleporter, so I blinked into the fray facing the Archbishop, didn't volley it off the field, maxed out the flux and then was pushed over the edge and the rest of the fight was mostly me getting a volley off before being overloaded again. Was fun. No complaints, was my own foolishness.
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Velox

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #229 on: January 14, 2015, 01:04:45 PM »


I've been trying a trade fleet and as far as I can tell the Templars have made this totally impossible.  Even with augmented engines and tugs there's no way a trade fleet of any reasonably large ships can escape even small templar fleets, and escorts (a pair of Geminis, a Princeps, and whatever fighters I've been able to purchase) can't even flee themselves, let alone buy the freighters time to get out.  I'm only a year or so in and the periodic rep drops have me down to vengeful already, and there's no way I have either the character levels or heavy ship resources to fight them.  Is this how it's supposed to work?

I've recently added Diable, SCY, and Neutrino - is there any chance that could be making the Templars hate me faster than they're (I presume) supposed to start hating me?
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Silver Silence

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #230 on: January 14, 2015, 01:20:07 PM »

None of those factions should be a problem. I added them to my game and restarted to play with them and about the only thing relating to the Templar that seemed out of the ordinary after doing so was that the Templar were neutral. I assumed it was either because my last game was a pirate start and everyone disliked me 'cept the Mayorate. My guess is they support "free" trade. My gamey guess is so that pirate players have at least one friendly faction to get other ships and weapons from, but I digress. This game I started in alignment with the Tri-Tachyon and went to pick off some Templar frigates that survived a fight with a bigger fleet and noticed they were neutral. Decided to leave them be until they actually come at me wanting blood.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #231 on: January 14, 2015, 02:06:34 PM »

Templars generally start off at Inhospitable.  When you trade with the Luddic Church, the Templars don't like it one bit and you will lose rep.

By the way, Templar ships are really slow.  Unless Jesuits are swarming you, most of your fleet should be getting away.
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Velox

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #232 on: January 14, 2015, 04:42:55 PM »

Templars generally start off at Inhospitable.  When you trade with the Luddic Church, the Templars don't like it one bit and you will lose rep.

By the way, Templar ships are really slow.  Unless Jesuits are swarming you, most of your fleet should be getting away.

Is that trading when there are Templar ships nearby, or does word just get out?  As a trader, I spent a good bit of time buying food at Tartessus as per the norm, and had never seen the massive rep hits happen before.  As it is, the burn rate of my fleet (I'm level 31 with the speed boosts available there) can't get above 4, and and I've never been able to outrun a Templar fleet.  When they have caught me, I've issued an immediate full retreat order and the fighter wings have mostly gotten away, but the the Geminis, Princeps, Atlasses, Phaeton (with unstable injector), Rook, Valkyrie, and Ox(en) are vapor before the fighter wings even hit the exit points.  I'm not super familiar with the templar ships but from looking at the screenshots in this thread I think the last group I experienced this with was a Paladin, a crusader, and 2 (3?) of the little ones that keep turning into lightning bolts briefly - Jesuits?  Maybe I just somehow got incredibly lucky in the past but my reputation is at vengeful (80) with the Templar already at 31.

Do I have any options other than just deleting my character and going back to leveling by doing nothing but attacking/pursuing pirates?  It's been kind of need staying below vengeful with them, but not at the cost of instantly losing everything if a templar fleet sees me.
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #233 on: January 14, 2015, 04:57:44 PM »

Templars generally start off at Inhospitable.  When you trade with the Luddic Church, the Templars don't like it one bit and you will lose rep.

By the way, Templar ships are really slow.  Unless Jesuits are swarming you, most of your fleet should be getting away.

Is that trading when there are Templar ships nearby, or does word just get out?  As a trader, I spent a good bit of time buying food at Tartessus as per the norm, and had never seen the massive rep hits happen before.  As it is, the burn rate of my fleet (I'm level 31 with the speed boosts available there) can't get above 4, and and I've never been able to outrun a Templar fleet.  When they have caught me, I've issued an immediate full retreat order and the fighter wings have mostly gotten away, but the the Geminis, Princeps, Atlasses, Phaeton (with unstable injector), Rook, Valkyrie, and Ox(en) are vapor before the fighter wings even hit the exit points.  I'm not super familiar with the templar ships but from looking at the screenshots in this thread I think the last group I experienced this with was a Paladin, a crusader, and 2 (3?) of the little ones that keep turning into lightning bolts briefly - Jesuits?  Maybe I just somehow got incredibly lucky in the past but my reputation is at vengeful (80) with the Templar already at 31.

Do I have any options other than just deleting my character and going back to leveling by doing nothing but attacking/pursuing pirates?  It's been kind of need staying below vengeful with them, but not at the cost of instantly losing everything if a templar fleet sees me.


I'll tone down the rate at which you lose rep in the next update.  However, in the end, the point of the Templars is that they're threatening and make the game harder.  At level 31 you're well into midgame and should probably invest in hardier escorts; the Templars aren't going to give two *** about some fighter wings.  When you have an Atlas, it's generally a good idea to have a strong escort like a Dominator.

Are you using SS+, by the way?
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Tommy

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #234 on: January 14, 2015, 05:05:55 PM »

I literally wouldn't have anything to fight, if not for the Templars. It's the most awesome faction late game.

We totally need another late game, OP faction, from you Dark :) Or at least that capital Templar ship your were talking about!
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Velox

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #235 on: January 14, 2015, 05:25:01 PM »

Templars generally start off at Inhospitable.  When you trade with the Luddic Church, the Templars don't like it one bit and you will lose rep.

By the way, Templar ships are really slow.  Unless Jesuits are swarming you, most of your fleet should be getting away.

Is that trading when there are Templar ships nearby, or does word just get out?  As a trader, I spent a good bit of time buying food at Tartessus as per the norm, and had never seen the massive rep hits happen before.  As it is, the burn rate of my fleet (I'm level 31 with the speed boosts available there) can't get above 4, and and I've never been able to outrun a Templar fleet.  When they have caught me, I've issued an immediate full retreat order and the fighter wings have mostly gotten away, but the the Geminis, Princeps, Atlasses, Phaeton (with unstable injector), Rook, Valkyrie, and Ox(en) are vapor before the fighter wings even hit the exit points.  I'm not super familiar with the templar ships but from looking at the screenshots in this thread I think the last group I experienced this with was a Paladin, a crusader, and 2 (3?) of the little ones that keep turning into lightning bolts briefly - Jesuits?  Maybe I just somehow got incredibly lucky in the past but my reputation is at vengeful (80) with the Templar already at 31.

Do I have any options other than just deleting my character and going back to leveling by doing nothing but attacking/pursuing pirates?  It's been kind of need staying below vengeful with them, but not at the cost of instantly losing everything if a templar fleet sees me.


I'll tone down the rate at which you lose rep in the next update.  However, in the end, the point of the Templars is that they're threatening and make the game harder.  At level 31 you're well into midgame and should probably invest in hardier escorts; the Templars aren't going to give two *** about some fighter wings.  When you have an Atlas, it's generally a good idea to have a strong escort like a Dominator.

Are you using SS+, by the way?

Yeah, SS+.  Which, by the way, is doubleplus good!  I just wanted to try out an armed merchant fleet - Circes, Leviathans, Geminis with fighter wings, and some light warships - centurion heavy destroyers, maybe kestrels or the like - with a character maxing out logistics and tech for the "go team!" sort of feel.  Try to avoid the big baddies, fight when raided, etc.  It took me until level 31 to scrape up the rep and money for the fistful of Geminis and Mules, plus the captured Princeps and some nice fighter cover (TriTach claws, some Neutrino wings, and some misc. Gladius and Broadsword flights for variety) plus a handful of SCY mining/boarding destroyers.  (I picked the "honest merchant" start, after all!)  If the Templars are going to be going vendetta on me by that point, though, it's seems clear that's not a way the game can be played with the Templars around. 

It's kind of funny because I leveled my previous character through pure combat and nothing else - lots of merciless hunting down/destroying/pursuing pirate fleets - and had worked my way up to an Onslaught and Caesar fleet backbone with a few escorts.  The Templars don't mind that route though!

So is it just trading with the Luddies?  Maybe I can give the honest merchant thing another shot some time.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #236 on: January 14, 2015, 05:27:12 PM »

I literally wouldn't have anything to fight, if not for the Templars. It's the most awesome faction late game.

We totally need another late game, OP faction, from you Dark :) Or at least that capital Templar ship your were talking about!

I will be making a "boss" faction sometime this year... You might be able to say two of them though one is not in the conventional sense folks would think of ;)

Velox

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #237 on: January 14, 2015, 05:35:16 PM »

I literally wouldn't have anything to fight, if not for the Templars. It's the most awesome faction late game.

We totally need another late game, OP faction, from you Dark :) Or at least that capital Templar ship your were talking about!

I will be making a "boss" faction sometime this year... You might be able to say two of them though one is not in the conventional sense folks would think of ;)

Gamera and Mothra are the first things that popped into my head there.  I'm guessing those probably aren't the two you're referring to... :)
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #238 on: January 14, 2015, 05:43:53 PM »

Yeah, SS+.  Which, by the way, is doubleplus good!  I just wanted to try out an armed merchant fleet - Circes, Leviathans, Geminis with fighter wings, and some light warships - centurion heavy destroyers, maybe kestrels or the like - with a character maxing out logistics and tech for the "go team!" sort of feel.  Try to avoid the big baddies, fight when raided, etc.  It took me until level 31 to scrape up the rep and money for the fistful of Geminis and Mules, plus the captured Princeps and some nice fighter cover (TriTach claws, some Neutrino wings, and some misc. Gladius and Broadsword flights for variety) plus a handful of SCY mining/boarding destroyers.  (I picked the "honest merchant" start, after all!)  If the Templars are going to be going vendetta on me by that point, though, it's seems clear that's not a way the game can be played with the Templars around. 

It's kind of funny because I leveled my previous character through pure combat and nothing else - lots of merciless hunting down/destroying/pursuing pirate fleets - and had worked my way up to an Onslaught and Caesar fleet backbone with a few escorts.  The Templars don't mind that route though!

So is it just trading with the Luddies?  Maybe I can give the honest merchant thing another shot some time.

You could try flying near a big patrol if a Templar is tailing you.  Every fraction in the game is willing to fight them, after all.  While the patrol is unlikely to win, it will slow down the fleet or weaken it enough that it isn't as much of a threat.
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Velox

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Re: [0.65.1a] The Knights Templar v0.9.3g
« Reply #239 on: January 14, 2015, 06:05:42 PM »

Yeah, SS+.  Which, by the way, is doubleplus good!  I just wanted to try out an armed merchant fleet - Circes, Leviathans, Geminis with fighter wings, and some light warships - centurion heavy destroyers, maybe kestrels or the like - with a character maxing out logistics and tech for the "go team!" sort of feel.  Try to avoid the big baddies, fight when raided, etc.  It took me until level 31 to scrape up the rep and money for the fistful of Geminis and Mules, plus the captured Princeps and some nice fighter cover (TriTach claws, some Neutrino wings, and some misc. Gladius and Broadsword flights for variety) plus a handful of SCY mining/boarding destroyers.  (I picked the "honest merchant" start, after all!)  If the Templars are going to be going vendetta on me by that point, though, it's seems clear that's not a way the game can be played with the Templars around. 

It's kind of funny because I leveled my previous character through pure combat and nothing else - lots of merciless hunting down/destroying/pursuing pirate fleets - and had worked my way up to an Onslaught and Caesar fleet backbone with a few escorts.  The Templars don't mind that route though!

So is it just trading with the Luddies?  Maybe I can give the honest merchant thing another shot some time.

You could try flying near a big patrol if a Templar is tailing you.  Every fraction in the game is willing to fight them, after all.  While the patrol is unlikely to win, it will slow down the fleet or weaken it enough that it isn't as much of a threat.

Yeah that's saved me a couple of times.  :)  I guess I just kind of misunderstood the whole point of the Templar.  I was thinking of a "I set off into space, explore the different worlds and try my hand at some different trades, establish relations with different factions and work my way up to being able to buy some cool stuff, collect a few different sorts of fleets, play "gotta catch 'em all" with the omnifactory, just eventually become a force of sorts in my own right - and then throw my lot in with the people of the sector against the Templar threat" sort of story - Templars as the ever-present affliction of my home sector that one day I'll be ready to help face.  If I'm understanding better now, they're more for people who know exactly how to go directly from nobody to optimized characters with the most powerful fleets and need something tougher to fight. 

That's totally cool, btw!  But it sounds like they're something to turn off for someone like me who enjoys the slow build-up, fiddling with odd fleet compositions (I learned how to win against some pretty decent odds with a Princeps flagship and a couple of fighter wings, it was awesome!)  But playing under the shadow of the dropping hammer just isn't my thing - hardcore I definitely ain't.  :)

Thanks for discussing with me and helping me get what's going on.  You do amazingly cool stuff, and thank you!
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