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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] The Knights Templar 0.9.8e  (Read 260886 times)
Mr. Nobody
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« Reply #930 on: August 03, 2017, 07:23:31 AM »

and all weapon flux is cut in half.
I didn't mean "all weapons" but specifically TEMPLAR weapons. As is "templar weapons on templar ships is smooth as butter, any other combination and you have to take a hammer to it to make it fit"
Also with the OP cost reduction for templar weapons on templar ships you can cut some of the OP available to templar ships so they aren't as murderous in the hand of a player that fits them with "conventional" weaponry
Since Templar tech is supposed to be fairly alien (as in "there is nothing like this in normal ships" not in "ayy lmao") compared to everyone else's it makes sense that they are specialized to use their own weapons, other factions (captains) have to do a large amount of hackjobs in order to cram a templar weapon into a normal mount.
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Schwartz
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« Reply #931 on: August 03, 2017, 07:56:09 AM »

That's just the thing though - it doesn't matter if it's just Templar weapons or all weapons. The high OP ceiling of Templar ships doesn't translate to more power if you fit cheaper guns on them. You just get more hullmods or better flux stats. And a much higher TTK against other ships. Offensive power is mostly limited by weaponry, so DR balanced it one way. Making Templar weapons specifically cheaper on Templar ships would be doubling down on that, it's not really necessary. I think the trouble of fitting Templar weapons on regular ships is well represented in the many sacrifices you have to make and the fragile combat performance you get as a result.

The only times that formula runs into problems is when you have Templar weapons with 'too reasonable' flux stats like the Sentenia, Pax Cannon (not technically cheap, but range makes it viable) or formerly the Clarents, coupled with ships that have the stats and spare OP to handle them. A lot of Templar guns aren't great for that purpose already, so it's just an issue of us figuring out the cheese builds so he can fix the remaining ones. Like.. you wouldn't do any better putting a Longinus on a Sunder when you can just fit a HIL with 1/1 flux.

tl;dr: Up Sentenia flux cost a bit and you're golden.
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Dark.Revenant
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« Reply #932 on: August 03, 2017, 09:31:05 AM »

Agreed; I'll probably end up doing that.
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Mr. Nobody
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« Reply #933 on: August 03, 2017, 10:54:52 AM »

That's just the thing though - it doesn't matter if it's just Templar weapons or all weapons. The high OP ceiling of Templar ships doesn't translate to more power if you fit cheaper guns on them. You just get more hullmods or better flux stats. And a much higher TTK against other ships. Offensive power is mostly limited by weaponry, so DR balanced it one way. Making Templar weapons specifically cheaper on Templar ships would be doubling down on that, it's not really necessary. I think the trouble of fitting Templar weapons on regular ships is well represented in the many sacrifices you have to make and the fragile combat performance you get as a result.

The only times that formula runs into problems is when you have Templar weapons with 'too reasonable' flux stats like the Sentenia, Pax Cannon (not technically cheap, but range makes it viable) or formerly the Clarents, coupled with ships that have the stats and spare OP to handle them. A lot of Templar guns aren't great for that purpose already, so it's just an issue of us figuring out the cheese builds so he can fix the remaining ones. Like.. you wouldn't do any better putting a Longinus on a Sunder when you can just fit a HIL with 1/1 flux.

tl;dr: Up Sentenia flux cost a bit and you're golden.

Better flux stats that translate into me being able to slap all those weapons that don't have a too high OP cost but eat flux like nobody else.
Or installing SO and brutally murder anything within 450 range while enjoying even greater flux stats (double venting at all times).

What i'm getting at is making the Templar weapons and ships a "costly but effective" thing when taken separately and a "refer to the ships' chaplain asap" when together.
This would allow DR to make the Templar fleets even more of a powerhouse (pretty much Final Boss or even Bonus Boss staus) without necessarily turning the recovery of a templar ship or a bunch of their weaponry in a "i win" button against anything that is not a massive non-pirate fleet.

Long story short:
Normal ship with Templar weaponry->Ok-ish, better be able to supply the insane flux cost with what little OP it has left
Templar ship with normal weaponry->Ok, is a noticeabily stronger ship with a nice system but nothing too special, there might be better alternatives
Templar ship with Templar weaponry->NOW WE ARE TALKING

My judgement might be affected by enjoying Brawl Minus a little bit too much
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Ataren
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« Reply #934 on: September 20, 2017, 05:42:25 AM »

Ok, I know this might be a bad place to ask around such questions but... I am struggling to start the campaign as a Knights Templar with the Nexerelin mod. Any tips on how to start and earn money?
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LordDavenport
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« Reply #935 on: September 24, 2017, 01:32:34 PM »

Ok, I know this might be a bad place to ask around such questions but... I am struggling to start the campaign as a Knights Templar with the Nexerelin mod. Any tips on how to start and earn money?

Step 1. Find a fleet of pirates/any unfriendly faction.
Step 2. Murder it.
Step 3. Loot it.
Step 4. Sell the loot to buy more stronk templar stuff.
Step 5. Go to Step 1.

Remember that all of your ships are effectively a size larger for combat effectiveness. So your frigate will go toe to toe with most Destroyers.
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HELMUT
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« Reply #936 on: September 24, 2017, 02:05:08 PM »

Easier said than done, Templar start is by far the hardest of any factions. You can't really loot things since the starter Martyr have really poor cargo capacities, and require many supplies for maintenance. And that's not counting everyone trying to kill you.

You'll have better results by starting with another faction, and then join the Templars mid-game when you reached a sizeable fleet/treasury to support your crusades. Still, going for a pure Templar fleet is just impractical, but having a few of those ships in a more conventional fleet works much better.
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lechibang
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« Reply #937 on: September 26, 2017, 07:05:46 AM »

More ships!!!!
Anyway, I had a lot of fun with the ships, especially the Chevalier-class with its Lancelot lance, blasting the foes into oblivion.
Of course, fighting the Templars are always hard as hell because of their shields and especially the Archbishop.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 07:15:10 AM by lechibang » Logged

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Death_Silence_66
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« Reply #938 on: September 27, 2017, 12:20:49 PM »

More ships!!!!
Anyway, I had a lot of fun with the ships, especially the Chevalier-class with its Lancelot lance, blasting the foes into oblivion.
Of course, fighting the Templars are always hard as hell because of their shields and especially the Archbishop.
If you are having difficulty killing the templars, High Intensity Lasers are the way to go. A paragon or oddessy with all HILs can deal with most templar ships without too much trouble.
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cjusa
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« Reply #939 on: September 27, 2017, 02:11:39 PM »

More ships!!!!
Anyway, I had a lot of fun with the ships, especially the Chevalier-class with its Lancelot lance, blasting the foes into oblivion.
Of course, fighting the Templars are always hard as hell because of their shields and especially the Archbishop.
If you are having difficulty killing the templars, High Intensity Lasers are the way to go. A paragon or oddessy with all HILs can deal with most templar ships without too much trouble.
But it is also a Paragon... The main way to beat them is to force them into a corner and overwhelm them one by one.
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A Random Jolteon
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« Reply #940 on: September 27, 2017, 08:26:21 PM »

More ships!!!!
Anyway, I had a lot of fun with the ships, especially the Chevalier-class with its Lancelot lance, blasting the foes into oblivion.
Of course, fighting the Templars are always hard as hell because of their shields and especially the Archbishop.
If you are having difficulty killing the templars, High Intensity Lasers are the way to go. A paragon or oddessy with all HILs can deal with most templar ships without too much trouble.
But it is also a Paragon... The main way to beat them is to force them into a corner and overwhelm them one by one.
What about the "Brutal death by OverPowered Templar Lasery Death Beams"? Shouldn't that be included somewhere?
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Megas
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« Reply #941 on: September 29, 2017, 09:40:22 AM »

Sentennia is still great; more range than normal energy weapons and homing?  I gladly leave other weapons empty to fit that bad boy in.  It is still one of the best weapons to use even after all of the tweaks over the years because normal energy weapons are generally bad to mediocre.  The only major weakness of Sentennia is windup, which kills shield bypass tricks teleporting ships can do.

Re: Templar start in Nexerelin
I just recover ships and use those instead of Templar ships until I can afford to use them.  Kind of silly since that makes my fleet a Pirate fleet with the Templar flag.
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LordDavenport
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« Reply #942 on: September 29, 2017, 10:34:50 PM »

Sentennia is still great; more range than normal energy weapons and homing?  I gladly leave other weapons empty to fit that bad boy in.  It is still one of the best weapons to use even after all of the tweaks over the years because normal energy weapons are generally bad to mediocre.  The only major weakness of Sentennia is windup, which kills shield bypass tricks teleporting ships can do.

Re: Templar start in Nexerelin
I just recover ships and use those instead of Templar ships until I can afford to use them.  Kind of silly since that makes my fleet a Pirate fleet with the Templar flag.

Man... after talking about how easy the templar start is, I started a new game with the mid level fleet size for templars in nexterline(frigate and minifrigate). I have remembered how much of a *** it is killing everything with the frigate. Mostly that the jaunt is an awkward distance for engaging ships sitting outside weapons range. Starting to remember how to work the ship now though.
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Botaragno
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« Reply #943 on: September 30, 2017, 02:29:29 PM »

This faction really doesn't work well with Nexerilin and the ability to take planets.

Because basic Templar fleet comps beat the *** out of every basic fleet they can just swarm the map and nullify the supposed "small numbers" part of their "small numbers but deadly" fleet aspect
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canned Tomatoes
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« Reply #944 on: September 30, 2017, 02:44:43 PM »

This faction really doesn't work well with Nexerilin and the ability to take planets.

Because basic Templar fleet comps beat the *** out of every basic fleet they can just swarm the map and nullify the supposed "small numbers" part of their "small numbers but deadly" fleet aspect
In 7.2 I used to request a few large fleets, to distract and invade the templar planets. If you can't beat them with one fleet, bring three. Also, using saboteurs can help with that. It's costly but not impossible.
Also if you see a lot of templar fleets in a system of your faction you can request fleets to take care of them.
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