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Author Topic: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod  (Read 83923 times)

Jonlissla

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Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2014, 10:15:16 PM »

One issue I have is that there tends to be only one faction in each sector. If I want to make money without trading, I have to attack that group as there aren't many enemies. I defeat the group easily and get about 3-4 thousand worth of loot, however, I then cannot trade in that sector, so I have to go to hyperspace to sell the loot. It would make a lot more sense to have multiple warring factions in zones so that you can make an enemy of one and still trade with the other without having to travel in empty space so much.

I have the same thoughts as well. It's very difficult to increase your reputation if you don't want to rely on trading, and there is surprisingly little combat between the factions. Despite there being plenty of fleets in systems the gameworld feels very static. More invasions would be a welcome addition.

Also, many of the homeworld systems suffer from bad perfomance. Maybe it's the sheer amount of asteroids in the systems, or maybe the immense amount of fleets flying around. Most likely a combination of both. I think you need to tone it down a notch.

Feedback on new functionality is welcome!

I haven't tried the new missions yet but the Dreadnoughts and the new startup options are great. Would like to see a few more which could influence your standing with hostile factions like Sanshas Nation and the rest.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
« Reply #61 on: December 11, 2014, 07:56:18 AM »

One issue I have is that there tends to be only one faction in each sector. If I want to make money without trading, I have to attack that group as there aren't many enemies. I defeat the group easily and get about 3-4 thousand worth of loot, however, I then cannot trade in that sector, so I have to go to hyperspace to sell the loot. It would make a lot more sense to have multiple warring factions in zones so that you can make an enemy of one and still trade with the other without having to travel in empty space so much.

I have the same thoughts as well. It's very difficult to increase your reputation if you don't want to rely on trading, and there is surprisingly little combat between the factions. Despite there being plenty of fleets in systems the gameworld feels very static. More invasions would be a welcome addition.

Also, many of the homeworld systems suffer from bad perfomance. Maybe it's the sheer amount of asteroids in the systems, or maybe the immense amount of fleets flying around. Most likely a combination of both. I think you need to tone it down a notch.

Feedback on new functionality is welcome!

I haven't tried the new missions yet but the Dreadnoughts and the new startup options are great. Would like to see a few more which could influence your standing with hostile factions like Sanshas Nation and the rest.
Yeah, massive amounts of asteroids and fleets WILL slow down a system
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celestis

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Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2014, 12:12:12 PM »

Quote
Would like to see a few more which could influence your standing with hostile factions like Sanshas Nation and the rest.
Well, I also lack the affiliation with other factions while playing, I intend to add more customization options when I add guristas and mordu's legion.
Quote
Yeah, massive amounts of asteroids and fleets WILL slow down a system
Thanks for a hint, I'll check that and remove extra asteroids if needed (as far as I got that each asteroid is a separate sprite, so that's not suprising).

[WIP] I've also got somehting really special here for you, hope you will like that. Here is...
TENGU!
Yeah, it IS modular.

Well, this is in very early stage of development, but most difficult problems have been ~solved.
There are still many engine limitations that I didn't manage to overcome yet, maybe some other modders will help me with my questions and I'll solve them too.
The screenshot shows a single ship, just changed variant in mission editor. Ship has original T3 subsystems as hullmods divided into 5 groups, which can be mounted/removed at will between engagements. They change the ship appearance and later will change bounds polygon too.

Current "troubles":
1) Ship renders on top of projectiles, weapons and engines. Well, that isn't as ugly as it seems to be, it even looks kinda cool when missiles launch from under the hull. But still that may be worse for other strategic cruisers.
2) Weapon mounts are fixed and their position is not affected by the modules. Actually useless to put efforts into this until (1) is solved.
3) No preview in fitting view. This is not likely to have any solution, I will just use a placeholder pre-rendered Tengu image with some warning text about that... Changes will be visible only in combat.

About general design, Strategic Cruisers will have just ~4 weapon slots but they will gain powerful bonuses from subsystems. Player will be able to customize both a all-round ship, super-tanked fortress or an incredibly agile machine of death. The process of getting one in campaign is depending on the recent exploration feature. I plan to release a mission-only version first (with only one cruiser ATM), collect feedback and then work on the rest.
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angrytigerp

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Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2014, 08:43:27 AM »

I've just gotta say, this mod just FEELS like what EVE would be as a realtime game. Balance seems to largely be the same -- two frigates can easily kite and kill a destroyer, if not a poorly-fitted cruiser. And especially with frigates, it moves so damned fast -- in a good way. While the actual game needs to do the whole dice-roll combat with orbiting at distances, I can imagine frigates darting around with impunity... Unless they get webbed, in which case just like EVE proper, they're toast.

The only thing I've really gotta say regarding this mod is a repeat of mentioning the lack of reputation build-up-ability. Spent maybe 30 minutes in the game, reached like rep 25 with a faction, and that's only through trade -- in the base game and other mods, I live on bounties, but they seem to only be given by the Independent faction. Am I just really unlucky, or is this a known issue of the mod -- that no one gives bounties?
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Silver Silence

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Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2014, 05:22:37 AM »

Quote
Would like to see a few more which could influence your standing with hostile factions like Sanshas Nation and the rest.
Well, I also lack the affiliation with other factions while playing, I intend to add more customization options when I add guristas and mordu's legion.
Quote
Yeah, massive amounts of asteroids and fleets WILL slow down a system
Thanks for a hint, I'll check that and remove extra asteroids if needed (as far as I got that each asteroid is a separate sprite, so that's not suprising).

[WIP] I've also got somehting really special here for you, hope you will like that. Here is...
TENGU!
Yeah, it IS modular.

Well, this is in very early stage of development, but most difficult problems have been ~solved.
There are still many engine limitations that I didn't manage to overcome yet, maybe some other modders will help me with my questions and I'll solve them too.
The screenshot shows a single ship, just changed variant in mission editor. Ship has original T3 subsystems as hullmods divided into 5 groups, which can be mounted/removed at will between engagements. They change the ship appearance and later will change bounds polygon too.

Current "troubles":
1) Ship renders on top of projectiles, weapons and engines. Well, that isn't as ugly as it seems to be, it even looks kinda cool when missiles launch from under the hull. But still that may be worse for other strategic cruisers.
2) Weapon mounts are fixed and their position is not affected by the modules. Actually useless to put efforts into this until (1) is solved.
3) No preview in fitting view. This is not likely to have any solution, I will just use a placeholder pre-rendered Tengu image with some warning text about that... Changes will be visible only in combat.

About general design, Strategic Cruisers will have just ~4 weapon slots but they will gain powerful bonuses from subsystems. Player will be able to customize both a all-round ship, super-tanked fortress or an incredibly agile machine of death. The process of getting one in campaign is depending on the recent exploration feature. I plan to release a mission-only version first (with only one cruiser ATM), collect feedback and then work on the rest.


Ah, so now I'll be able to build my 60-70km range, 2s reload HM spam mission ship? Gud. Guuud.
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celestis

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Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2014, 11:29:48 AM »

Quote
The only thing I've really gotta say regarding this mod is a repeat of mentioning the lack of reputation build-up-ability. Spent maybe 30 minutes in the game, reached like rep 25 with a faction, and that's only through trade -- in the base game and other mods, I live on bounties, but they seem to only be given by the Independent faction. Am I just really unlucky, or is this a known issue of the mod -- that no one gives bounties?
Partly you are unlucky, because I encountered bounties from different factions. But sad thing is that most of them are hostile to you so much that the bounty bonus is not applied. I don't think I can influence the rules of generating bounties, but I have some thoughts for next releases. Probably I'll add something like insignias loot to exchange for reputation. Or mb just add reputation for fighting faction enemies... Anyway I am going to solve the issue in the future.
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angrytigerp

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Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2014, 08:38:41 PM »

All right, so, some constructive criticism.

Dreadnoughts. Just like in EVE itself, they can be quickly and easily whittled away by a determined squadron of smaller ships. No problem, it's just like blobbing in EVE Online, and I've been in so many blobs, I can't count high enough to figure out how much ISK I've lost by being one of the frigates or cruisers being picked off (I'm not a BS kind of guy). That said, as a test, I took the Naglfar (Min Dread) into a sim battle, left it at stock settings, then brought in a Typhoon. Leaving control entirely to the AI, I watched as my dread promisingly took the Typhoon to max flux in the initial "charge at each other" stage, without it getting off a shot. Well and good. But then as soon as Siege Mode dissipated, the Typhoon vented, and moved in to attack. Now, it took about ten minutes, but the vanilla AI still strafed my massive artillery perfectly, and ducked out when Siege Mode went active... until, between shooting and their own potshots, managed to take me to full flux, and then slowly whittle me away.

Now, on one hand, you can argue that this isn't meant to be JUST like EVE; I understand that. On the other hand, you can argue that this fairly easily replicates EVE, as Dreads' weapons aren't really meant to fight anything smaller than other capitals or stations. Both of those said, I think that there's a bit of a middle ground to be found here, as while it's true that the battleship would be receiving glancing blows, its tank would probably be good enough to stay alive if the only thing fighting it were my Dread, one-on-one. But it would not be able to singlehandedly kill me (in EVE), because it would lack either the sustained DPS or the alpha to really deal damage that could break my tank.

What's the solution here? Well, couple things I've thought of.

1.) Give all capitals (Dreads, Carriers, and Moms) a hardwired System that simulates tanking, which is to say, an armor-repairing (does that exist in the code?) one for the armor tanks (Amarr and, if I remember my fits right, Minmatar) and one that increases shield protection value for the shield tanks. The idea here is that it would mean that, just like in EVE, the only way you can actually kill capitals is by either the sustained fire of a large fleet, or the alpha strike of an even larger fleet.

2.) Hand-in-hand with this, increase the raw damage of each Dreadnought's built-in weapons. Yes, I said increase. Because see, the trick then is to counter it with making them track very slowly (about as slowly as they do during their firing/reload phases as in the mod right now). But then these weapons become useless, yes? NOT if you're using them against other Dreadnoughts and capitals! In this way, you would be able to simulate the Dreadnoughts having the raw offensive value to punch through the tanks (as simulated in point 1), but also the fact that unless they happen to be right on the money or incredibly lucky, they can't kill anything smaller than a battleship or so, simply because those things move too fast.

I'm not sure you mean to make the game JUST like EVE, maybe some of this stuff you already knew about/considered and discarded. I'm just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks, ya know?

One other thing that might completely throw a wrench in the works is Dreadnoughts against each other. You don't yet have Dreads available in the simulation battles, and as tempted as I am to go into the campaign and grind my way to buying a Dread and then tracking down an enemy fleet with one, I can't really see what it's like right now. Sure, there's the missions with Dreads vs. Dreads, but it's more like fleets vs. fleets, and it would be way too tricky to get the enemy to have nothing left but their Dread, without allowing my own Dread come to harm and keeping my AI fleetmates from doing too much damage to theirs to present a truly accurate one-on-one.

That said, I can anticipate the Dreadnoughts' turning radii playing hell with the weapon changes I propose, as they ARE able to quickly turn and bring their guns to bear -- and since the AI thinks in the sense of "hey, I want THIS weapon to attack THIS target, what's the quickest way to get the enemy in my firing arc?", they'll waste no time twisting around WAY faster than a Dread should. But how do you fix this -- make Dreads turn slowly? Now they can't bring their primary weapons to bear even against other Dreads, because they enter the battle facing perpendicular to their weapon arcs. Not to mention that even I can see where an issue might arise with mobility -- they're already horribly slow, why make it even worse and thus ruin the player's experience?

Ah well, if you want to discuss some points, or even just shoot me down entirely (no worries if that's the case, it's your show and I can't mod for *** myself, so who am I to judge?), you can post here, or PM me if you REALLY hate my feedback and don't want things public.

EDIT: and to clarify, I am well aware that the player can offset these issues and singlehanded lay demolish a fleet by taking manual control, and/or by installing hull mods and having skills. Well, the way I figure, hullmods simulate ultra rare Faction gear, and skills representing having Level 5 across-the-board skills, and thus vanilla-fit ships are all using T1 gear and have no SP -- so no deviation from EVE there!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 08:47:04 PM by angrytigerp »
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celestis

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Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
« Reply #67 on: January 05, 2015, 11:41:00 AM »

Thanks for your feedback! As for "tank" system for capitals, that is what I thought to add to siege mode, but i thought it would make the dreads insanely difficult to kill for small craft. And btw, the system greatly increases flux dissapation and hence is kinda shield tank (nothing for armor though).
As for damage, I don't feel like increasing it even more. It currently is almost 2x when siege mode active and is enought to quickly kill a cruiser, if hit. And as you said, you shouldn't be able to kill small ships with dreads. But I agree that they needed to have slower turn rate. The "ship turns faster than a gun" is quite okay because ship can't turn in siege mode at all.
My bad, I forgot to add them to simulator. But that's is pretty easy to modify if you really want them, you should just add the variant name in data\campaign\sim_opponents.csv.
Feel free to post any feedback here, whether it is good or bad, I'll try to take everything into account to make the mod better!
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celestis

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Re: [0.65.1a] EVE Mod
« Reply #68 on: February 22, 2015, 02:08:38 AM »

Hi again. I finally prepared an update for the mod. I didn't add a lot, but fixed some major issues.
Changes:
  • Added new star system Y-4CFK
  • Added Guristas Pirates and Mordu's Legion
  • New ships: Garmur, Orthus, Barghest + skinned ships for Guristas. Some of the skinned ones changed ship system and are quite different from the original ones.
  • Fixed problems with bounties by adding comm relays in every system. Bounties are no longer offered by minor factions.
  • Angel Cartel and Guristas will trade while hostile, just like the pirates.
  • Greatly reduced number of asteroids, should have positive impact on performance.
  • Weapons rebalance (again). Ballistic guns now reload in clips and regenerate ammo.
  • Reduced number of drones for small ships (1 at a time for under-cruiser ships).
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TartarusMkII

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2015, 02:15:28 AM »

Awesome! Welcome back!
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Az the Squishy

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #70 on: February 27, 2015, 03:00:36 PM »

Giving it a look see now and so far, awesome! (I'll be updating this as I go.)

but the first issue I can see is that some of the charcter creation options don't work, or at least one doesn't. At least... I hink it doesn't work... hmm.
either way I'll give ita look see an take screen-shots of things i foind to be buggy on linux. So far it's working great though. :3

rating as of 2/27/15 beause I like having fun :P  : A!

Delta7

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2015, 07:58:02 AM »

should call it Eve Offline XD
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Nazaxprime

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2015, 05:06:33 PM »

Just started, and I must say, JOB WELL DONE!
Huzzah, Shipmate!
I'll be back to provide more encouragement/feedback, but so far, so awesome!
In the meantime, thank you for all your hard work, and once I FINALLY get around to implementing my own ships(time has been a premium for years now, but my designs and research always continue), I'll be sure to ask you for some feedback as well.
Until that fated hour, GAME ON! ;D
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Requal

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #73 on: September 19, 2015, 09:42:52 PM »

I love EVE Online and still play it since 2003 but I do have some issues with this mod unless its far from finished.
For example the range of the 1400 Artillery should be 1500 at least and the right sound effect to come with that since I mostly fly my Artillery fitted Machariel (havent found this ship in this mod yet) in EVE Online was hoping to at least have some decent artillery sounds and range :D

Next is the scale of the ships.
I know have the scales exactly the same is impossible since fighters would just be 1 pixel if not a subpixel compared to a Super Carrier.
But the Frigates are pretty large compared to the bigger ships.

Also gaining high end ships is too easy most markets offer super carriers and carriers and battleships without any rep involved unless this is supposed to be like this.

Also created a raven with full missiles but the bastard was just flying around didnt shoot a single missile.


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celestis

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2015, 04:21:18 AM »

Regarding weapon balance, I changed it several times due to some weapons being too OP, like artillery. The mod is not very balanced in general, I admit that. Anyway, you can easily change the values to your liking in the CSVs.
Ship scale. Actually I even mentioned that in the description. SS is bad with very large ships, that should be obvious (partly due to shield being a round bubble, but not only that). It also limits zoom. These are reasons why this mod will not have correctly scaled ships and was never designed to. I found the sizes to be just okay to be fun to play, game mechanics of EVE and SS are jst too different to match everything.
Talking of gaining ships... Yeah, that's not like in vanilla, it's much simpler. I didn't put much effort into this aspect. Not many people play this mod, I assume, and I'm just keeping it updated to the level at which it will run fine on new SS version, there is no real development going on. Mod is more combat-oriented, fly your favorite EVE ships and do pew-pew) There will definitely be a patch for 0.7, so I'll take a look at raven bug there.
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