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Author Topic: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod  (Read 71826 times)

Requal

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #75 on: September 20, 2015, 11:33:58 AM »

Maybe change EVE frigates to SS Fighter squadrons so the size makes sense.
Or make the frigates smaller if the game only has issues with big ships.
But seeing like a squadron of EVE Frigates would actually be a better idea if I think about it.
Maybe just  scrap the super carrier and carrier so you can scale up battleships cause they seem rather small to me.
Battleships are basically what is most use by the common mission/incursion people in EVE.
Since in EVE almost noone flies a carrier or above anyway.
And trust me this mod has a lot of potential so more people will start playing it if you invest time in the mod.
Since what you have done untill now is pretty good.
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celestis

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2015, 07:10:02 AM »

Heh, most fun I had with the mod was flying frigates) These ships usually don't travel in packs of same, they are usually dedicated to different roles.
I currently work on a faction mod, probably I'll take a look at EVE again after it is finished.
But by what I have noticed, total conversions are not usual in SS and people do not really need them. Ironclads is the one most played (adding a lot of cool stuff apart from ships and guns), others did not survive the patches and were abandoned. Someone here is trying to make a Stargate TC, but there's no visible progress currently. So currently there are only 2 TCs vs 23 faction mods. People here much more appreciate the faction mods that add up to the overall vanilla experience and can be switched on/off to ones liking. This makes the game much more diverse than any TC, given the number of people with their own factions.
So that is my humble excuse for abandoning the development ATM =)
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Titann

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #77 on: September 27, 2015, 07:19:48 AM »

well, I love this mod but it really needs improvements!

My suggestion is;

1. Resize Frigates/Destroyers/Cruisers/Battlecruisers/Battleships/Dreadnoughts/Carriers/SuperCarriers (BTW: I made that already and it is better)

Drones = 20 Pixel
Fighter/Bomber= 35 Pixel
Frigate =  60 pixel
Destroyer = 140 pixel
Cruiser = 180 pixel
Battlecruiser = 220 pixel
Battleships = 340 ~ 400 pixel
Dreadnoughts = 800~1000 pixel
Carriers = 600 pixel
Super Carriers = 900 ~ 1100 pixel

2. Balance

I think it is possible to make a script like (I dunno how though)
Maybe Built-in Hullmods?

Destroyer;
Damage Penalty Vs Frigates (%15)

Cruiser;
Damage Penalty Vs Frigates (%65)
Damage Penalty Vs Destroyers (%50)

Battlecruiser;
Damage Penalty Vs Frigates (%65)
Damage Penalty Vs Destroyers (%50)
Damage Penalty Vs Cruisers (%15)
Example:  If  Beam damage is 100 DMG, it will do 50 damage to Destroyer (%50 less damage)

Battleship;
Damage Penalty Vs Frigates (%85)
Damage Penalty Vs Destroyers (%70)
Damage Penalty Vs Cruisers (%35)
Damage Penalty Vs Battlecruisers (%15)

Dreadnought
Damage Penalty Vs Frigates (%98)
Damage Penalty Vs Destroyers (%95)
Damage Penalty Vs Cruisers (%85)
Damage Penalty Vs Battlecruisers (%80)
Damage Penalty Vs Battleships (%50)

3. Balance on Ship ArmorPoints/HullPoints/FluxPoints/Turrets

Ships must have same stats with Eve online (If that script is possible)
Ships must have very low Flux dissipation (Especially Caldari,Minmatar ships)
Ships Armor must not have same Armor Points like in EVE, Hull Points works (Add armor points to hull)
Turrets must not get disabled via normal weapons but Jammer

4. More Hullmods/Ordnance Points

There should be more hullmods like 50mm Armor, 100mm Armor also Armor only for Dreadnoughts

Frigate OP = 50
Destroyer OP = 125
Cruiser OP = 250
Battlecruiser OP = 550
Battleship OP = 1350
Dreadnought OP = 2500 (can fit some hullmods like 3200mm armor, X-Large Shields)

5. More Weapons or Tech 2 weapons?

If I remember right, Frigates can use 75mm-125mm-150mm guns.
Tech 2 weapons, more expensive
Ships with Tech 2 weapon variants?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 09:10:06 AM by tokmak333 »
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celestis

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #78 on: September 27, 2015, 10:54:54 AM »

Well, I can answer most of these suggestions in generally the same way: this mod is not EVE, and it is not meant to be exactly the same or even attempt to be close to it at some points. If you mod a game, you should accept the game mechanics, not try to copy the original just to be "the same".
Now more specific comments:
1. You are probably right. Unfortunately just rescaling the sprites will have penalty on quality, obviously. It will most likely require rendering all that stuff again + adjusting all the slots and bounds - that's a ton of work, I'm not quite eager to do that since this is not the biggest problem with the mod... Anyway, if someone happens to do that I'll include files in the download.
2. These scripts are totally possible, you are right (on per-weapon basis, at least). But it will make it almost impossible to kill a frigate from a BS for example. Yes, you will say "it is just like that in EVE" and that's why I wrote the first paragraph. Currently frigates do quite decent job of reducing the damage by mobility even without these tweaks.  But the scripts seem not to be difficult, maybe I'll make them for the test and add a config switch to turn them on/off. But this will definitely require total rebalance anyway and I've already said that I'm avoiding major changes currently.
3.
Quote
Ships must have same stats with Eve online
Quote
Ships must have very low Flux dissipation
- Again, see first paragraph... "Must" is a very strong word here. Also I don't quite get what stats are we talking about: many stats are absolutely incompatible, like armor. And also definitely I'm not going to make a built-in hullmod for every single ship just to give it original bonuses.
Quote
Ships Armor must not have same Armor Points like in EVE, Hull Points works (Add armor points to hull)
- sorry, I didn't understand this sentense at all. Could you explain?
4.
Quote
Dreadnought OP = 2500 (can fit some hullmods like 3200mm armor, X-Large Shields)
Come on, this is getting ridiculous. What for? Dreads have very limited usage here (I was very doubtful about adding them at all, BTW), why should we have a ton of hullmods for them. Again, this is Starsector firstly, EVE - secondly. SS has quite balanced vanilla hullmods.
5. Diversity for the sake of diversity? I know that EVE is all about "wow, that module is cool, it is a whole 1% better than the one I have". This will not be that cool in Starsector...

I hope that this didn't sound offensive, it wasn't meant to be.
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Titann

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #79 on: September 27, 2015, 12:04:33 PM »

Quote
Ships Armor must not have same Armor Points like in EVE, Hull Points works (Add armor points to hull)
- sorry, I didn't understand this sentense at all. Could you explain?
Here an Example: If Ship armor is 1000, You can add this armor to Hull points
Hull: 4000
Armor: 1000
=
Hull: 5000
Somethng like that and call it Hull tank instead of Armor tanking

4.
Quote
Dreadnought OP = 2500 (can fit some hullmods like 3200mm armor, X-Large Shields)
Come on, this is getting ridiculous. What for? Dreads have very limited usage here (I was very doubtful about adding them at all, BTW), why should we have a ton of hullmods for them. Again, this is Starsector firstly, EVE - secondly. SS has quite balanced vanilla hullmods.

We need hullmods to make Hull tanking ships. It is possible to make Shield Tanking in this game you know how to do that. Dreadnought op = 2500 because frigates shouldnt use 3200mm armor or X-Large shields
Even EVE Mods should have Shield-Tank, Armor-Tank but Starsector armor mechanic is very different so use Hull instead of Armor.
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Requal

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #80 on: September 28, 2015, 01:15:10 PM »

Heh, most fun I had with the mod was flying frigates) These ships usually don't travel in packs of same, they are usually dedicated to different roles.
I currently work on a faction mod, probably I'll take a look at EVE again after it is finished.
But by what I have noticed, total conversions are not usual in SS and people do not really need them. Ironclads is the one most played (adding a lot of cool stuff apart from ships and guns), others did not survive the patches and were abandoned. Someone here is trying to make a Stargate TC, but there's no visible progress currently. So currently there are only 2 TCs vs 23 faction mods. People here much more appreciate the faction mods that add up to the overall vanilla experience and can be switched on/off to ones liking. This makes the game much more diverse than any TC, given the number of people with their own factions.
So that is my humble excuse for abandoning the development ATM =)

Why not create eve factions for Starsector (+) instead of a full conversion.
You have the materials already.
That will surely be played especially if compatible with + & Nex.
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shuul

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #81 on: November 20, 2015, 06:43:31 AM »

Heya, just registered to ask if this mod will b updated to 0.7?
Please tell me YES  :)
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Titann

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #82 on: November 20, 2015, 11:35:24 AM »

would be awesome to have 0.7 version of this mod
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celestis

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #83 on: November 21, 2015, 09:25:17 AM »

would be awesome to have 0.7 version of this mod
Heya, just registered to ask if this mod will b updated to 0.7?
Please tell me YES  :)
Hey there! Currently mod is incompatible with 0.7, but it will definitely make it to new version soon. Not quite sure how much time it will take, but things don't look terribly bad at a first glance.
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MiniChiken

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2016, 01:44:16 PM »

Hey, any progress on updating this mod to be compatible with .7?
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celestis

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #85 on: January 21, 2016, 08:30:57 AM »

Quote
Hey, any progress on updating this mod to be compatible with .7?
There is progress, but I've encountered a weird show-stopper campaign bug and currently have no idea how to fix it. I try to narrow down the problem to find the cause.
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MiniChiken

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #86 on: January 21, 2016, 08:35:29 AM »

Awesome thanks for the update. If there's anything we as a community can do to help let us know. I was extremely excited to see this mod and would love to be able to play.
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MiniChiken

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2016, 06:18:40 AM »

Hey Celest, here's your weekly prod. Any update on this effort?
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celestis

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2016, 09:37:33 AM »

Hey Celest, here's your weekly prod. Any update on this effort?
Not really. I'm stuck with the following:
Code
41339 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.CoreScript  - Added patrol fleet spawning script to market [Sek]
41339 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.CoreScript  - Added patrol fleet spawning script to market [Oris]
41339 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.CoreScript  - Added patrol fleet spawning script to market [Zorast]
41344 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - 0 out of a maximum 50 trade fleets in play
41345 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Picked market [Sek] to spawn trade fleet from
41347 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Will send trade fleet to market [Oris]
41347 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Delivering: [], bringing back [Food]; volume: 211
41347 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 1 for market [Sek] (volume: 211)
41365 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Spawned 21 point economy fleet from [Sek] to [Oris]
41365 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.B  - Loading class: java.util.UUID
41365 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.B  - Loading class: com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.rules.MemoryAPI
41404 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.CoreEventProbabilityManager  - Created FactionCommissionMission: Caldari State
41404 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.CoreEventProbabilityManager  - Created FactionCommissionMission: Amarr Empire
41405 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.CoreEventProbabilityManager  - Created FactionCommissionMission: Minmatar Republic
41405 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.events.CoreEventProbabilityManager  - Created FactionCommissionMission: Gallente Federation
41406 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - 1 out of a maximum 50 trade fleets in play
41406 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Picked market [Oris] to spawn trade fleet from
41407 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Will send trade fleet to market [Sek]
41407 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Delivering: [Food], bringing back []; volume: 213
41407 [Thread-5] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.fleets.EconomyFleetManager  - Creating trade fleet of tier 1 for market [Oris] (volume: 213)

These are the first (and last) entries after campaign preparation starts. At least one fleet spawns fine, but the app freezes after the second. Sometimes this happens on the first fleet. I looked through EconomyFleetManager, but I didn't find any possibility for an infinite loop there, so I completely lack ideas.

edit:
In fact the issue is in fleet factory. I pointed the rpoblem down to this place, so I will probably manage to fix it soon. There is likely something wrong with fleet roles. Will return to this when I have time on weekend.
Code
		while (combatPts > 0) {
if (!cfFail && freighterPts > 0 && random.nextFloat() < doctrine.getCombatFreighterProbability()) {
float pts = Math.min(freighterPts, combatPts);
if (pts > 8) pts = 8;
float added = addRandomCombatFreighters(pts, qf, fleet, random, market);
combatPts -= added/2f;
freighterPts -= added/2f;
cfFail |= added < pts/2f;
continue;
}
if (combatPts >= 16f) {
float pts = add16PointGroup(qf, fleet, random, market, capitalOk, largeCarrierOk, combatPts - 16f, params);
combatPts -= pts;
} else if (combatPts >= 12f) {
float pts = add12PointGroup(qf, fleet, random, market, capitalOk, combatPts - 12f, params);
combatPts -= pts;
} else if (combatPts >= 8f) {
float pts = add8PointGroup(qf, fleet, random, market, capitalOk, combatPts - 8f, params);
combatPts -= pts;
} else {
float pts = addRandomCombatShips(combatPts, qf, fleet, random, market, capitalOk, true, 0f, params);
combatPts -= pts;
}
}
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 10:48:09 AM by celestis »
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MiniChiken

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Re: [0.65.2a] EVE Mod
« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2016, 12:11:00 PM »

Awesome thanks for the update. It sounds like all of the key assets are in place if the first fleet is spawning alright so it very well may be tied to a change with fleet factory. Can you disable fleet factory and run in a debugging mode to ensure all of your added assets play nicely in engine?
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