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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Scy V1.57 (2019/09/04)  (Read 558981 times)

The Soldier

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #555 on: September 18, 2015, 04:40:16 AM »

I just realized how good the ORION Artillery is.  Damn, with three of those mounted on the Neman Lion, it can face off against an Onslaught in a proper dual and come out on top.  However, I'm finding that the autotargeting AI is pretty poor with this weapon (even with Level 10 Gunnery Implants and the Autotarget AI hull mod) - it always overestimates the speed of the projectile, and undershoots the target at most ranges.  Can something be done about that?

Oh, and EMP Sweeper missiles are insanely rare in Nexerelin.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 04:48:16 AM by The Soldier »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #556 on: September 18, 2015, 05:27:34 AM »

I just realized how good the ORION Artillery is.  Damn, with three of those mounted on the Neman Lion, it can face off against an Onslaught in a proper dual and come out on top.  However, I'm finding that the autotargeting AI is pretty poor with this weapon (even with Level 10 Gunnery Implants and the Autotarget AI hull mod) - it always overestimates the speed of the projectile, and undershoots the target at most ranges.  Can something be done about that?

Oh, and EMP Sweeper missiles are insanely rare in Nexerelin.
I use the average speed for the autoaim, meaning it's most accurate near the maximum range but under-lead when the target get closer, and given the variable speed, it won't get any better with skills. Unless I write a complete custom targeting AI it can't be much more precise than that.
Right now the stages are based on the distance travelled. I could base them on the time flown, but then the projectile would get kinetic extremely close to the launcher, witch would certainly upset the balance while improving the aiming because it would get faster sooner. Maybe worth testing.
I'm also working on a small (secret ;D) change that could improve it's accuracy a tiny bit, but it's for after 0.7 comes out at best.

As for the EMP Sweeper, they are often available in the Prism Freeport, but not that much otherwise I agree. However I'm planning on completely reworking that weapon (that is removing it completely and doing something else around the same idea). I find it useful but too unreliable and unpredictable due to the complexity of it's mechanic. It also can be exploited in the player's hands.
What I'm thinking for now is to launch a single relatively fast torpedo that doesn't arc all over the place, but mirv into two heatseeker subshots going left and right witch will zap the targeted ship, and only this one. The effect would be much more controlable that way, and the weapon more consistent in its behavior against any target.
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Foxer360

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NightfallGemini

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #558 on: September 22, 2015, 11:45:27 PM »

I'm both sad and happy that you're reworking the EMP missiles. They're overpowered as hell in player hands, sure, but running into enemies with EMP sweepers is obnoxious as hell and has caused a few reloads for me.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #559 on: September 23, 2015, 12:09:25 AM »

:-X
And now I remember why I had that seemingly counter-productive line of code stopping the effect of the beam at 1% hull...

I'm both sad and happy that you're reworking the EMP missiles. They're overpowered as hell in player hands, sure, but running into enemies with EMP sweepers is obnoxious as hell and has caused a few reloads for me.
Witch is the sign of a badly designed weapon for me. But I'm keeping the idea, just changing the implementation into a more controllable form.
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603bill

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #560 on: October 04, 2015, 08:12:43 AM »

Found a bug with the Nemean Lion, where whenever the armor is folded up, weapons that recharge ammo can build charges beyond the normal limits.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #561 on: October 04, 2015, 08:41:29 AM »

Interesting..... I'll look it up, but you should probably not expect a fix before Starsector's update. Thanks for the report!

[EDIT] Took only a few minutes to solve, but damn how come I didn't thought of that when writing the script >< Anyway since it's pretty hard to exploit I won't upload a fix immediately. I'm in the middle of something big for 0.7 and it would be quite some work to revert those changes.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 07:16:29 AM by Tartiflette »
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HeartofDiscord

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #562 on: October 07, 2015, 07:19:29 PM »

Any chance we could get a setting to make the location of Tartarus fixed? Like maybe to the upper left of Corvus where there's that big empty spot? (There is no other mod planet I'm aware of in that general area, seems like a good spot.)
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #563 on: October 07, 2015, 11:05:38 PM »

Mmmh, that's not a bad idea... I'll look into making it toggle-able for the next update. Thanks!
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HeartofDiscord

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #564 on: October 08, 2015, 02:02:28 AM »

Mmmh, that's not a bad idea... I'll look into making it toggle-able for the next update. Thanks!
Sounds good man, I look forward to it.

I'd like to say, I've never messed with the laser torpedoes much until recently, and dang if they aren't crazy. I want to say they might be a pinch too strong, but I'm not sure what would be a good way to do something about it. Firstly, they are incredibly good against smaller ships. The energy damage is interesting because on that small scale, its what makes them great. They can knock down shields and still have ammo left over, and because of the shotgun like effect, very very little of the damage is wasted, and you can overload and kill a ship with the same missile.

The other side of this coin is that they are still overshadowed by reapers against bigger targets that aren't as nimble or can toggle shields as fast. The maneuverability is wasted on bigger ships where the HE damage is more useful. They break the stalemate of beam heavy ships unable to end a fight with each other early game, and I really really like that. Maybe add one more OP to them, I'm not sure.
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #565 on: October 08, 2015, 04:48:03 AM »

The problem with laser torpedoes is actually that shotgun effect. They spread damage all over the target, which is pretty bad against heavily armored ships. I also feel they tends to detonate earlier against bigger ships, spreading the damage even further (happened a lot against sideways Conquests), probably because they take in account the shield around the ship.

It kinda fill the role the Atropos was supposed to do. It's generally good against destroyers and light cruisers, but fall off later against bigger targets.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #566 on: October 08, 2015, 05:38:17 AM »

Good points. I think the best solution would be to set the engagement range to the center of the target and not to the edge of the shield. That way they would detonate farther from small targets, and closer to big ones.
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HeartofDiscord

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #567 on: October 08, 2015, 10:23:06 AM »

Well the wide spread could be used to spread that EMP damage, not sure how useful that'd really be though. Im not sure how wide it gets with the bigger ships exactly though, I haven't used them that much. I think as long as there isn't really much of a gap between the shots its fine.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #568 on: October 08, 2015, 10:43:33 AM »

It's not that the spreading get wider,  it's just that the torpedo detonate farther from larger ships than smaller ones, thus roughly scoring the same amount of hits on both. That mean more hits per armor cell on small targets, making the weapon exponentially better the smaller it's target is. I've tried some changes forcing them to detonate closer to large ships and the results are promising. I even had to nerf the damage a bit for the smaller versions.
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Gothars

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #569 on: October 08, 2015, 10:48:07 AM »

That they explode earlier against bigger ships seems like an advantage to me, since this way they better avoid the often heavier PD of these ships.

They look and sound very impressive BTW, and are very fun to use. Best weapon of the mod IMHO.

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