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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Scy V1.57 (2019/09/04)  (Read 557347 times)

Histidine

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.96 New Weapons, Ordinance Points re-balance (03/08/2015)
« Reply #525 on: August 04, 2015, 09:22:24 PM »

Filename case sensitivity?
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Pengu1n

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.96 New Weapons, Ordinance Points re-balance (03/08/2015)
« Reply #526 on: August 04, 2015, 09:53:25 PM »

Filename case sensitivity?

Not on my end, unfortunately.

EDIT: Fresh installation of SS, only modifications to startup script set available memory to 4gb and added version checker jar as instructed. This instance of the game has only ever been started without mods or with only Lazylib/Shaderlib/Twiglib enabled. Enabled SCY in the mod manager, and it throws the same error as before. I don't know if there are any more possible variables I can remove at this point.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 10:49:36 PM by Pengu1n »
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OOZ662

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.96 New Weapons, Ordinance Points re-balance (03/08/2015)
« Reply #527 on: August 05, 2015, 01:56:50 AM »

I'm curious if it's some edge case of that space at the end causing a problem. As mentioned in my original report of those errors, that error states it's looking for a filename with a space at the very end (whereas the other error I had didn't); perhaps some systems interpret around it and a few don't for whatever reason.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.96 New Weapons, Ordinance Points re-balance (03/08/2015)
« Reply #528 on: August 05, 2015, 02:32:33 AM »

I re-uploaded a version with a completely different name. If that don't solve the problem, nothing will.
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Pengu1n

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.96 New Weapons, Ordinance Points re-balance (03/08/2015)
« Reply #529 on: August 05, 2015, 10:10:32 AM »

That seems to have done it, actually. I'm up and running, first try. Chalk it up to an oddity about the Mac version of SS?
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Ratheden

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Thanks
« Reply #530 on: August 24, 2015, 04:44:57 AM »

Thanks a lot for the work you put into this mod.

I use the Argus and Hydra for nearly every game, that is if they are on sale when i visit.

While i do use other vessels, those two are my favorite.

Thanks again,
Ratheden
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.96 New Weapons, Ordinance Points re-balance (03/08/2015)
« Reply #531 on: September 06, 2015, 04:31:29 PM »

So i just finished my Nexerelin SCY campaign, and it was pretty fun. Early game was quite rough though.

My main issue during early/mid game was to keep my ships alive. Until the armored ones, SCY ships can't take many hits, their shields are very crappy even if it's kinda offset by their huge flux pool. Most importantly, the narrow shield arcs make them extremely vulnerable to flanking, even more so as their ships tends to be very long.

Fighting factions like Blackrock or Exigency as SCY is a nightmare, missiles flying around the shields and hitting the very vulnerable engines was the death sentence for many of my ships. SCY handle outnumbered battles even worse than Neutrinos. Installing insulated engines is hard too, as they tends to be starved on OPs. Ships like the Alecto and the Euryale are pretty good early on, thanks to their unusual shield coverage that prevent them from losing their engines too easily. I also deployed quite a lot my Centaur freighters in combat. They can't defend themselves but the medium mount that can support a LRM bring much needed help in early battle.

I wasn't sure at first what kind of guns i should get, especially since SCY have truckload of them. KAcc and HEMor hurt very hard and are cheap despite the crappy range. My favorite was probably the triple blaster, short range but wreck shields and armors. It can kill enemy ships very quickly and reduce the number of opponents that can surround you, which felt like a pretty successful strategy. Most of the time, battle with SCY felt like a race. Unlike factions like Exigency or II that can take their time to kill you, SCY must wreck everything, right at the beginning.

By the end of the game, my fleet consisted of two Nemean lions, a Keto and 2 armored Stheno that i deployed beforehand so that they aren't stuck behind the rest of the fleet. Behind, a carrier Manticore, an Euryale that somehow managed to survive the whole campaign, and a truckload of fighters. Of course i went beyond my logistic limit, i didn't needed ships with full CR, i needed more ships to atomize the enemy fleet in one go, otherwise things started to get ugly.

The Nemean lion is an awesome front-liner. Yes, its burn speed is atrociously slow but it's probably the best brawler in the game, i managed to win a duel against a Neutrino Jackhammer with my triple heavy ENB loadout. Also ridiculously tough, even when venting, the PDs on the armor plates are still functioning, intercepting any possible incoming missiles. For the guns, i wasn't convinced by the experimental ones like the Ricochet or Orion cannon, not reliable enough. As said earlier, i used the triple ENB with its 700 DPS goodness and constant fire rate. However i switched later one for three plasma cannons for faster kills, especially against other capital ships.

The Keto was a bit underwhelming. Sure the 4 launch bays are handy but the Manticore could prove roughly the same for a smaller logistic footprint. Also i rarely saw it using its main gun, and when i did there were a lot of missing.

The two armored Sthenos weren't doing anything flashy or anything but their presence prevented my 2 Lions from being overwhelmed from every sides. They fulfilled their supportive role pretty well.

For the fighters, the Combat Sufi is probably the big winner here. The pinpoint accuracy at 550 range with the Minigun make it a beast at intercepting everything of its size and sometimes bigger. Same thing for the Combat Afti, while they couldn't intercept fighters as well as the Sufi, their blasters and missiles wrecked everything bigger. The Interceptor variants weren't that bad, the hacking com links were handy to disable the engines of fleeing ships. No love for the PD variants though, i mean, i have miniguns already!

So yeah, that was an enjoyable game. SCY struggle pretty hard at the beginning but once the steamroller is launched, it wrecks everything. Too bad the Templars were wiped out early, i'm curious to know how a slugfest between those two factions would have turned.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.96 New Weapons, Ordinance Points re-balance (03/08/2015)
« Reply #532 on: September 06, 2015, 11:50:35 PM »

Thanks for the extensive feedback Helmut, always appreciated!
In general it matches my own feelings, with the very tough start if you play a pure Scy fleet that smooth out later on. It's pretty much the intention, and I don't think I'll change anything dramatically, especially since they work so well in combination with a couple of mid or low tech vanilla ships. If your early fleet consist of a Enforcer tank and a few harasser frigates like the Tisiphone, everything will be alright.

The only thing I'm thinking that could help early on without changing the high level balance (and prevent a lot of frustrating ship losses) would be to reduce the time needed to repair their engine. Since it's standardized across the same class, and there's only one, we could imagine the engineering section is quite efficient at repairing it. Maybe I could nudge up it's resistance to emp too... Or put the Insulated Engines hull-mod as built-in and be done with it.

I'd be curious to hear about your issues with the Ricochet Gun and the Orion Artillery. Some people LOVE the Ricochet Gun because it's terrific against frigates swarms and front shields. It's not something I would mount on a Nemean Lion, but on an escort Stenos? Definitively! As for the contrary the Orion Artillery is a very good choice for the Nemean Lion due to it's long range and it's variable damage type. It has a lot of troubles against small targets due to the weird leading required but it can really hurt capital ships, withering their shields at long range and wrecking their armor once close.

As for the Keto, Maybe I could add a single large turret somewhere? Or maybe the issue is that the Manticore Carrier is just too good. I'm not sure. The Astrapios main gun could use some work too.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, I'll mull that over and probably nudge a couple of things around.
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.96 New Weapons, Ordinance Points re-balance (03/08/2015)
« Reply #533 on: September 07, 2015, 04:47:51 AM »

Insulated engines, faster repair... This could definitely help. I was more thinking about a slightly larger shield arc to cover the sides better, especially for the longer ships. SCY destroyers/unarmored cruisers tends to have a pretty short lifespan early to mid-game and while i haven't tried later, i don't think they become magically more survivable in larger battles.

For the more experimental weapons, the damage they deal didn't felt reliable to me. For a while i had two Manticore, with a Ricochet and an Orion. They both missed an awful lot and when they hit, the damage felt very weak. I'd rather mount a reliable source of damage in the form of a KAcc or a HEMor. The Orion may have one of the longest range among the ballistic weapons, but at only 300 DPS, it's one of the weakest as well. I made a test with a triple Orion lion against an Onslaught and ran out of ammo just after finally stripping its armor. Even with expanded magazine, this is going to be a problem in large battles.

Same thing for the other "weird" weapons. I tried the Area scorcher on a Sthenos later on but quickly realized that i didn't actually needed it. The Area scorcher is pretty good at intercepting missiles and unarmored fighters, however most of my heavier ships were already covered in built-in miniguns, which fulfilled the same role. I even tested it compared to the Guardian PD (vanilla one, not the buffed SS+ version) and found the Guardian better, it turn faster and can actually hurt the shielded threats.

Didn't tried too much the medium ones outside of the triple "normals" (HEMor/KAcc/Blaster). SCY ships tends to be starved with medium ballistic/energy mounts so i couldn't afford to spend them with weird, unreliable weapons that deal soft flux.

I think the Keto is good... I think. That thing is reasonably tough and covered with miniguns, so a very good PD platform. The main gun and the large missile mount allow for long range support, the launch bays can keep a fighter fleet constantly resupplied. So it's a good ship but i think my fleet just didn't needed it. A cheaper Manticore still allowed my fighters to be resupplied at a reasonable rate and with my strategy of "plowing" trough the enemy fleet in one go, they weren't supposed to actually resupply in the first place. Plus removing the Keto gave me the space to squeeze in another Sthenos or even a Lion for more dakka.

I'm not sure, perhaps the Atrapios need to fire a bit faster to land its hit? I think it's roughly fine as it is, i'm pretty sure there's other kind of SCY fleet where the Keto have its place.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.96 New Weapons, Ordinance Points re-balance (03/08/2015)
« Reply #534 on: September 07, 2015, 07:53:09 AM »

Well, the Keto is a fast capital carrier, two of them can support a hell of a lot of fighters while maintaining a pretty high burn speed.

I'll take another look at the Orion artillery: since the removal of most of the ammo, it may need a buf to compete. On the other hand, most of the more unusual weapons find their place in AI fleets because you can't really know what you will face, and there always a nasty surprise waiting to jump on the player (I remember being wrecked by a couple of Singularity Torpedoes that I didn't saw coming, or fleet heavy on the Focused Pulse Beams that picked my frigates easily)

Didn't tried too much the medium ones outside of the triple "normals" (HEMor/KAcc/Blaster). SCY ships tends to be starved with medium ballistic/energy mounts so i couldn't afford to spend them with weird, unreliable weapons that deal soft flux.
Time to think about a new Cruiser... Something like an oversized Enforcer but faster and less armored? Maybe 5/6 medium turrets and 2 small ones (or something more radical: 4 medium hardpoints, 2 medium turrets and only drones for PD). Just enough to play around with funky loadouts.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #535 on: September 11, 2015, 08:55:35 AM »


Require Debido's TwigLib.
Require LazyWizard's LazyLib.
Compatible with LazyWizard's Version Checker.
Compatible with Histidine's Nexerelin, including Corvus mode.
Integrated to Dark.Revenant's Starsector+

Small update to address most of Helmut's feedback and some more of my own. The main change is that the Manticore Carrier lost one of it's flight decks, but gained a large missile hard-point. On the other hand, the more expensive, rare and further stripped down from it's weapon Manticore Extended Carrier appeared (witch is mostly the same as the previous one, without two small turrets and no drone system).


In addition, Scy started to sell it's patented lightweight plating to regular ship-builders, allowing any ship to gain a decent boost to their engines performances at the cost of a large part of their armor when mounting this new hull-mod. Beyond that a lot of the exotic large weapons received a buff, from tiny for the HEMor to huge for the Orion Artillery, plus Scyan engines are now more resistant to flameouts and get repaired faster.

Changelog:
Spoiler
Code
V0.97
11/09/2015

NEW CONTENT
 - Added the Lightweight Plating hullmod: dramatically reduce the armor strength, but raise the engine performances a fair deal. Stronger effect on bigger ships, moderate OP cost.
 - Added a new Manticore Carrier, converted the previous one into the Manticore Extended Carrier:
   . The normal Manticore Carrier now has only two flight-decks but gains a large sideway missile hardpoint.
   . The Extended one loose two small turrets, most of it's cargo, it's drone ship-system has been replaced by flares and is a bit more expensive and much rarer.

BALANCING
 - Hemor mkIII: damage raised to 650 per shot from 500, flux cost raised to 2000 from 1500, rate of fire lowered to 24 rpm from 25, slightly improved precision. (in line with the Hellbore)
 - KAcc mkIII: damage raised to 550 per shot from 500, range raised to 850 from 800. (in line with the Gauss cannon)
 - Orion Artillery: minor graphical change of the projectile, rate of fire raised to 60 rpm from 30, ammo raised to 300 from 60, flux per shot lowered to 500 from 900, ordinance points raised to 25 from 24, autofire range raised to 2000 from 1200 (beware of the missed shots).
 - Ricochet Gun: fire rate raised to 40 from 30, ammo count doubled to 30, ammo regen doubled to 18 rpm, ordinance cost lowered to 20 from 21, slightly better precision.
 - Area Scorcher: ammo limitation removed, ordinance cost reduced to 18 from 20, raised the turn speed to 30deg/s from 15.
 - Heavy Modular Swarmer: damage per missile raised to 75 from 50.
 - Astrapios (Keto's super-weapon): rate of fire raised to 4 rpm from 3, projectile speed increased to 2000 from 1500, sub-shots damage significantly buffed.

 - Tobo wings: launch the large version of the Laser Torpedo instead of the smallest. Assault Shield ship-system removed, shield switched to omni, width increased to 120deg from 90.
 - Added the Insulated engines hull-mod effect to the Scyan Engineering hullmod, also decreased the engines repair time.
 - Slightly reduced turn speed of the Lamia, the Euryale and the Hydra.

BUGFIXES/IMPROVEMENTS
 - Reverted the SCPB to it's former rate of fire, though with some small adjustments: 3 shots bursts, less armor penetration.
 - Corrected some issues with the Tobo's torpedo launcher sometimes hitting itself.
 - Corrected a typo that prevented the Siren's ship-system from displaying it's description.
 - Minor graphical change on the Singularity and Laser torpedoes for better readability.
[close]
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 12:29:24 PM by Tartiflette »
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The Soldier

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #536 on: September 11, 2015, 04:35:29 PM »

I'm feeling that the Area Scorcher is pretty pitiful right now.  It's a glorified flak cannon that doesn't do too much a better job than it since there's no way to set it to do PD duties and the DPS, while impressive at 1000 frag damage, is spread out over such a large area that it becomes nearly worthless against fighters.  I can't find a reason to use it.
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #537 on: September 11, 2015, 04:58:48 PM »

As you said, it is a glorified flak cannon and while it is a very situational weapon (especially for SCY and their already excellent point defenses with the miniguns), it's very good at swatting swarm of lrms and unshielded fighters. But yeah, very situational.

However it is indeed set as fire support instead of PD for this version. Pretty sure it was PD before, that would make sense. Also i noticed some of its damage ignored the armor of the target, dealing very small hull damage with each shot, is that intended?

Another weird thing, the AI never fire the Orion cannon against frigates.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 05:00:24 PM by HELMUT »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #538 on: September 12, 2015, 12:00:24 AM »

I'm feeling that the Area Scorcher is pretty pitiful right now.  It's a glorified flak cannon that doesn't do too much a better job than it since there's no way to set it to do PD duties and the DPS, while impressive at 1000 frag damage, is spread out over such a large area that it becomes nearly worthless against fighters.  I can't find a reason to use it.

Mmh? The Area Scorcher has never been nerfed, on the contrary it's something like 6 times better than the initial version (twice the damage, half the flux, no ammo) and technically it deals 2000dps but with the spreading I figured less than half would hit. And it was never PD because it doesn't work well: having a ship that is consistently shooting itself when the missiles are close or other allied ships when trying to "help" them is definitively not a good idea! It's not a weapon suited for any enemies, but against some of the worst opponent of Scy, say Exigency (purely random choice, no hard feeling >:(), it can really help. Nevermind, there's something wrong with the damage script.

Another weird thing, the AI never fire the Orion cannon against frigates.
As for the Orion Artillery, it's so bad at leading I always put the ASSAULT flag to avoid wasting ammo on fast targets.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 12:09:11 AM by Tartiflette »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.65.2a] Scy V0.97 New Manticore Carrier, balance tweaks (11/09/2015)
« Reply #539 on: September 12, 2015, 05:23:52 AM »

So hum yeah, there was indeed an issue with the Area Scorcher no properly dealing damage to large ships but it only became obvious when I tried to rework the way the sub shots get dispersed. I also for some reason had not implemented a proximity fuse with missiles, that is also corrected. And now the firing ship cannot hit itself, though it's allies will get hurt. Since it gave the weapon a huge boost, I reverted all the changes I made except for the turn rate that really was necessary, and now it's a more than decent weapon against missile or fighter focused fleets. So:


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