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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects  (Read 72301 times)

Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #345 on: September 09, 2020, 09:27:24 AM »

Regarding to not lawless Privateer Base, I recently suggested one of the options.

It might be not best of the ideas (to be honest, it just bad), but general concept still fair: Privateer Base already kind of OP, so if you suggest it being not lawless (buff) you have to nerf it in some other way. Serious nerf, I mean. Just huge upkeep isn't enough.

What can be serious nerf?

-Decrease raid frequency or strength.
-Decrease (or even remove) loot.
-Dramatically limit targets they able to raid.
-Each raid can have direct impact to player gameplay. Either rep lose to numerous factions, or requiring player personal participation in raid, or consuming normally irreplaceable resource, or else...
-Draconic penalty if raid is failed.
-Larger negative impact to all player's markets in a system.
-Else in this vein.
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Minitialize

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #346 on: September 10, 2020, 12:57:52 AM »

Regarding to not lawless Privateer Base, I recently suggested one of the options.

It might be not best of the ideas (to be honest, it just bad), but general concept still fair: Privateer Base already kind of OP, so if you suggest it being not lawless (buff) you have to nerf it in some other way. Serious nerf, I mean. Just huge upkeep isn't enough.

What can be serious nerf?

-Decrease raid frequency or strength.
-Decrease (or even remove) loot.
-Dramatically limit targets they able to raid.
-Each raid can have direct impact to player gameplay. Either rep lose to numerous factions, or requiring player personal participation in raid, or consuming normally irreplaceable resource, or else...
-Draconic penalty if raid is failed.
-Larger negative impact to all player's markets in a system.
-Else in this vein.

Hmm, for drawbacks, I guess--
1. The player loses rep (3-5 rep. Given the frequency of raids, I'd say this can pile up pretty quickly) from the targeted faction (additionally, the faction's allies, if any, for 2-3 rep).
2. The upgraded base should demand ship hulls and marines. If any of it's most recent raids failed, the demand for both increases (if demands not met, base is hit with higher upkeep + stability penalty of x amount of products not met).

not really sure what else to add for drawbacks, but yeah
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SirHartley

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #347 on: September 10, 2020, 02:43:37 PM »

Regarding to not lawless Privateer Base, I recently suggested one of the options.

It might be not best of the ideas (to be honest, it just bad), but general concept still fair: Privateer Base already kind of OP, so if you suggest it being not lawless (buff) you have to nerf it in some other way. Serious nerf, I mean. Just huge upkeep isn't enough.

What can be serious nerf?

-Decrease raid frequency or strength.
-Decrease (or even remove) loot.
-Dramatically limit targets they able to raid.
-Each raid can have direct impact to player gameplay. Either rep lose to numerous factions, or requiring player personal participation in raid, or consuming normally irreplaceable resource, or else...
-Draconic penalty if raid is failed.
-Larger negative impact to all player's markets in a system.
-Else in this vein.

Of everything currently discussed, this is what I agree with the most.
The base is teetering on OP already - any additional benefits would have to be countered by a change in functionality, or a massive nerf to existing features.

Anything that does not directly affect how a player handles the building is not enough - this includes imports, cost and reputation - which get rendered useless by other mods, or are not impactful enough even in vanilla.

If I made it send 3 concurrent raids, it would no longer bring back loot, and get a huge nerf to fleet size.
If I made it target non hostile factions, it would cause a rep penalty - but it would also trigger an immediate response in kind (raids targeting your faction), paired with a reduction in spoils and accessibility loss of the planet.

All of that was considered when I made the thing, but I decided the most fun concept was also the most basic - send a raid, get loot.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #348 on: September 11, 2020, 11:47:53 AM »

Quote
most fun concept was also the most basic - send a raid, get loot.

Hmm... Not just "hmm", but HMMM!!! ©

If the best concept happens to be the simplest, why not try simple things further?

Privateer base: sand a raid => get loot.

Mercenary den(possible Privateer base upgrade or alternative): Pay a money(based on target strength) => send a raid(you chose where) => get loot.

Task force HQ(military alternative): Pay a money => send a raid(no loot).

Vivisection Center(dark side option) Send a raid => Satbomb&plunder everything(greatly reduced loot)

Department of aggressive investments("clear hands" solution): Pay a money => persuade pirates to raid your foes instead of you (no rep lose and off course no loot)

Procurement Office(Traders choice): Detect NPC market deficit => Send a trade fleet there (If player produce that commodity) => Get rep&money(If manage to reach destination and back)

Genocide node(Yes, I am drunk  ;D): Collect enough AI cores => Launch devastating "Kill all humans" raid onto system you apparently hate for some reason (Once arrived in system fleets became hostile to everyone, including player)
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Andres

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #349 on: September 11, 2020, 03:57:02 PM »

Hello Guys
I'm getting this:
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.deconomics_pirateHaven.getBestTarg etSystem(deconomics_pirateHaven.java:419)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.deconomics_pirateHaven.getRaidTarg et(deconomics_pirateHaven.java:399)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.deconomics_pirateHaven.reportEcono myTick(deconomics_pirateHaven.java:117)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.listeners.ListenerUtil.reportEconomyTick(ListenerUtil.java:75)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper.doEndOfStepStuff(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper.nextFrame(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Economy.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

Any idea what it can be?
I'm using version 1.7d

Cheers
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #350 on: September 18, 2020, 11:29:41 AM »

This post was rewritten several times, as my fantasy flies faster, than I able to crystallize it in a words. In a current state this suggestion is barely belong to ind.evo domain, but I already started to write it here... so... I'm to lazy to move it elsewhere. You can ignore it completely, tho'.

I am a lazy ass!
The suggestion is to add a structure, that will be able to spawn a support fleet, that follows a player. If player uses ability (sustain burn, go dark, transponder, etc), it will try to use it too. Player skills bonuses does not applied to support fleet, tho'. Fleet composition is entirely player-defined, as each ship used should be manually added to a custom storage. Not to be too OP, support fleet should be capped in fleet size or overall DP cost (not sure what would be better), so exceeded ships from storage wouldn't spawn in a fleet. Fleet composition refreshes only when player interact with home market. Support fleet depend on resources such as supplies, crew and fuel, player should manually add them to a custom storage. It can not store more than a maximal capacity of that resources of spawned ships or store any other commodity. If support fleet running low on that resources it returns home. If fleet loses some ships in battle, they are removed from custom storage (and opposite, if ship is removed from storage, it disappear from the fleet). Player can "dock" to that fleet in space to refresh support fleet supplies/fuel/crew, but can not take those back (to prevent abusing). Additionally, player able to assign up to 4 officers to that fleet (ships they are command of are chosen automatically by "fleet points" and "number" values from ship_data.csv). When player attack (or being attacked by) enemy, support fleet will try to participate fight as ally force (if close enough). Support fleet would not deploy in battle logistic ships, marked as "civilian" (respective hullmod). Also wuld be great, if support fleet (if close enough) would affect to salvage/survey interactions.
[close]
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Minitialize

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #351 on: September 18, 2020, 09:37:06 PM »

Hello Guys
I'm getting this:
Spoiler
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.deconomics_pirateHaven.getBestTarg etSystem(deconomics_pirateHaven.java:419)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.deconomics_pirateHaven.getRaidTarg et(deconomics_pirateHaven.java:399)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.deconomics_pirateHaven.reportEcono myTick(deconomics_pirateHaven.java:117)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.listeners.ListenerUtil.reportEconomyTick(ListenerUtil.java:75)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper.doEndOfStepStuff(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper.nextFrame(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Economy.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]
Any idea what it can be?
I'm using version 1.7d

Cheers

Huh, I was about to report the same thing. I've been getting the same issue recently;

Spoiler
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.deconomics_pirateHaven.getBestTarg etSystem(deconomics_pirateHaven.java:419)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.deconomics_pirateHaven.getRaidTarg et(deconomics_pirateHaven.java:399)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.deconomics_pirateHaven.reportEcono myTick(deconomics_pirateHaven.java:117)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.campaign.listeners.ListenerUtil.reportEconomyTick(ListenerUtil.java:75)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper.doEndOfStepStuff(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.reach.ReachEconomyStepper.nextFrame(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Economy.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

Thought I was probably the only one, but hey.
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Farya

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #352 on: September 19, 2020, 07:04:22 AM »

Regarding to not lawless Privateer Base, I recently suggested one of the options.

It might be not best of the ideas (to be honest, it just bad), but general concept still fair: Privateer Base already kind of OP, so if you suggest it being not lawless (buff) you have to nerf it in some other way. Serious nerf, I mean. Just huge upkeep isn't enough.

What can be serious nerf?

-Decrease raid frequency or strength.
-Decrease (or even remove) loot.
-Dramatically limit targets they able to raid.
-Each raid can have direct impact to player gameplay. Either rep lose to numerous factions, or requiring player personal participation in raid, or consuming normally irreplaceable resource, or else...
-Draconic penalty if raid is failed.
-Larger negative impact to all player's markets in a system.
-Else in this vein.
What if you would actually need AI core for one to procure anything but commodities? Say, by default it only raids for commodities from some market and deals minor rep loss for hostile action. With Beta core installed it will prioritize military markets to loot weapons, hull mods and LPCs, though weapons and supplies could also be stolen. With an Alpha core raiders will target industrial markets to procure valuable blueprints but you are unlikely to get anything else. And gamma could instead make for more frequent raids on poorly protected markets.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #353 on: September 19, 2020, 07:44:06 AM »

@Farya, that is actually, a decent point. Not sure if balanced, but yeah, sounds interesting.
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