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Author Topic: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 257910 times)

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #450 on: October 28, 2014, 06:57:21 PM »

I hope ships with skilled captains give bonus XP (in a later release).  I have fought plenty more max Combat (hencefore super) flagships and most of them are very vicious, much more powerful than even max-minus-one Combat flagships.  Some of these super ships are harder to solo than the rest of their fleet combined (or even entire defense fleets in 0.62).  Against super cruisers and capitals, it becomes a game of rock-paper-scissors (if trying to use the least resources).  Sometimes, Medusa is still the best option, other times it is a capital that can outgun it, or a fleet of many ships.  In case of using a fleet, try to solo the rest of super flagship's fleet, then bring in your fleet.

Super ships I fought so far...
  • Dominator = Still dumb as ever and not that hard.  Medusa can still kill it.
  • Eagle = The one with graviton beams is a real pain with lone Medusa.  Medusa can still solo it (with manual-controlled fire), but a fleet and/or capital is a better idea.
  • Doom = I have not soloed this yet with a Medusa.  I could overpower it with an Odyssey, or a fleet of smaller ships.
  • Odyssey = Have not soloed this with a Medusa; it is probably very hard to impossible.  Odyssey with plasma cannons can outgun it and kill it fast with luck.
  • Onslaught = Odyssey may do some damage, but it cannot outgun the super Onslaught, and too slow to keep away from it easily.  Once super Onslaught gets close, or Odyssey loses engines, it dies.  Medusa can solo it, but it is very hard and tedious, especially against the elite version with lots of HVDs.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 07:07:55 PM by Megas »
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #451 on: October 29, 2014, 04:07:50 PM »

I played as a bounty hunter a bit longer now, and I've got one major gripe.
It is quite disappointing to go after a 70 000 credit fleet and find but a handful of surviving, badly damaged frigates, at best. The time I need from the jump point to the target fleet is enough for local patrols to tear it to shreds (I'm under the impression they only act when I'm in the system). What should have been a glorious battle becomes little more than a fetch quest. And that happens more often than not. That I still get the full bounty should maybe be a consolation, but it only makes me wonder why I'm running a battle fleet in the first place when a hunter-killer frigate would suffice.

I don't see an obvious solution to this. I would hope for the whole bounty hunter mechanic to be expanded, so that information gathering and actually finding the target becomes part of the challenge. Then targets, as should be expected, could be only found far off from normal patrols and faction fleets.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #452 on: October 29, 2014, 04:56:47 PM »

Actually, most of the bounty fleets are centered around Gas Giants (minus Mors in the Covus system, which has always been a pain in the butt to get to), so you can just jump to the Gas Giant's gravity well from Hyperspace and destroy the fleet from there.
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TJJ

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #453 on: October 29, 2014, 05:11:42 PM »

If the campaign is intent on continuing on its current trajectory*, I'm hoping bounties become dynamic; placed on naturally occurring fleets that have managed to grow to a point where they overpower the local factions and are freely feeding off trade fleets/sieging worlds. (And the bounty itself paid for by money within the economy)

The larger picture being that everything becomes driven by the economy; raw resources fuel industry, industry creates goods, goods fuel population growth and ship construction, which is all required before fleets can spawn.
Basically the economic prosperity will directly influence the numerousness and availability of ships to the player and the AI fleet spawning logic.

*though I feel this direction is an error; the aspect of starsector that I fell in love with the combat engine, all this effort directed at the campaign isn't improving this aspect of the game at all - in some ways it detracts from it.
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ciago92

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #454 on: October 29, 2014, 05:42:45 PM »

*though I feel this direction is an error; the aspect of starsector that I fell in love with the combat engine, all this effort directed at the campaign isn't improving this aspect of the game at all - in some ways it detracts from it.

This should probably go in a general discussion thread, but how exactly do you feel the combat engine still needs improved?
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TJJ

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #455 on: October 29, 2014, 06:11:34 PM »

*though I feel this direction is an error; the aspect of starsector that I fell in love with the combat engine, all this effort directed at the campaign isn't improving this aspect of the game at all - in some ways it detracts from it.

This should probably go in a general discussion thread, but how exactly do you feel the combat engine still needs improved?

More ships, weapons, more diverse engagement scenarios, scripted objectives, terrain, etc.
Basically more depth within the combat engine itself; at the moment it's little more than a small arena where 'two fleets enter, one fleet leaves'.

Imagine the complexity of an RTS campaign mission from the likes of StarCraft, but played out in starsector's combat engine.
Complex objectives, multiple failure states, meaningful tactical choices.

In fact anyone who has experience of the SFC games (Starfleet Command) will know the sort of depth I'm hoping for.

Just yesterday I was imagining the viability of bringing classic RTS elements into Starsector's combat engine.
The type focused purely on tactical combat though, no base building, and the only resource being deployment points (rewarded for territorial control); a la wargame red dragon.
Pre-battle designing of your fleet, then in game you battle for territorial control, constantly pulling in new ships from your reserve to counter your opponent's current composition.

I can imagine it being immense fun, and with enormous strategic depth (both in the fleet design & combat phases).

Though It'd all be rather pointless without first having a functional MP mod....must get back onto that.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #456 on: October 29, 2014, 08:11:58 PM »

I try to keep my fleet at 40 DP or less so I do not need to play with the objective system.  When I am forced to go more than 40 DP, I want a big gigantic fleet.  The worst case scenario is a big fleet filled mostly of civilians and one or two fighting ships, ensuring the enemy gets unchecked access to objectives.  I know I can edit a file to change it, but that feels like cheating, more than using half damage setting.

I recently got a Hyperion, and it is stronger than earlier 0.6x releases because CR degrades slower, allowing it to spend more time in combat.  Hyperion that begins with 100% CR can probably solo all but the largest of fleets.  Hyperion is the ideal ship to eliminate obnoxious max Combat flagships because it is the only ship that can reliably flank them.

A few moments ago, I fought a max Combat Paragon, and it is a real monster.  I tried to fight it with a Medusa, but it got wasted.  Medusa is outgunned and outranged by the Paragon.  Thanks to max Combat perks, the Paragon is fast, hits very hard, and very tough to damage or kill.  If I did not have Hyperion, I probably would have needed an Onslaught or a Paragon of my own.
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maximusprime1010

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #457 on: October 29, 2014, 08:27:36 PM »

First great work on the update, I'm really enjoying the game and it had just been sitting there for a while before this made me play it and love it again.

Second some minor problems. This doesn't happen often but my game seems to crash when I save especially if I achieve a lot or leave it along time between saves. There also seems to be a lack of ships available in campaign I can only find about 3 different variants.

Finally some ideas for markets and relationships. Instead of three markets per location general/military/black could there be several? Depending on the planet different guilds, corporations and markets will be available (mining guild, robocorp, military etc). Another idea could be service markets like mercenaries to help you take on a difficult threat or banks to give you loans or insurance. Major markets will be visible to all players from the get go but there will also be smaller markets than cannot buy or sell in bulk but offer other advantages. (low tariff and unique items).  among these small markets will be the black markets. Finding these small markets should be a challenge. Rather than simple faction relation there should also be planet relation which if high enough is rewarded with revealing these small markets. They could also be revealed through com-sniffers, interrogating traders from those planets and other means.  It might also be interesting if the markets on the planet can be part of a different faction to the planet (as long as they're not enemies) and as well as factions there are multi system corporations but that may be too complex.

Again great work, thanks for the update and keep it up :)
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #458 on: October 29, 2014, 08:38:42 PM »

As for the exclamation marks, it's just a small QoL thing. It would be a bit inconvenient to be told by the list on the left that there's a problem with a commodity and then having to hunt through the inventory grid to find the commodity in question. The exclamation mark would let you find it very easily. Plus if you're going to include extra info in tooltips for certain commodities, it would be good to let the player know this or that commodity has some extra info they can view.

Ah, I see. Wasn't thinking of it this way, but yeah, that makes sense.

There's one other thing I wanted to mention in relation to this whole warning system. See, when I was learning the ropes of how shortages work and (accidentally) flooded a market that was suffering from a tiny shortage with a huge amount of goods and made an absolute killing, I thought to myself, cool, I've found an exploit that I can use to make massive profits. And then the investigation message popped up in my intel feed, basically a way for the game to say "oh no you didn't", and my thoughts immediately turned more along the lines of "oh crap, the dev had thought of this, I'm going to prison". Which was so cool! The warning system will make life easier for the player in the long run but it will also remove this jawdroppingly awesome moment when you think you've found a way to exploit the system and get away with it, and then thirty seconds later the game goes "nope, I know what you did, and there will be consequences". Just something to think about.

I have to say, that's really neat :) It's totally what I was going for with that, and it's *so cool* that it worked how it was supposed to. And yeah... there's this larger conflict(?) between "provide all the information on everything" and "the player needs to play the game to find out what happens".


I played as a bounty hunter a bit longer now, and I've got one major gripe.
It is quite disappointing to go after a 70 000 credit fleet and find but a handful of surviving, badly damaged frigates, at best. The time I need from the jump point to the target fleet is enough for local patrols to tear it to shreds (I'm under the impression they only act when I'm in the system). What should have been a glorious battle becomes little more than a fetch quest. And that happens more often than not. That I still get the full bounty should maybe be a consolation, but it only makes me wonder why I'm running a battle fleet in the first place when a hunter-killer frigate would suffice.

I don't see an obvious solution to this. I would hope for the whole bounty hunter mechanic to be expanded, so that information gathering and actually finding the target becomes part of the challenge. Then targets, as should be expected, could be only found far off from normal patrols and faction fleets.

Yeah, this is definitely a problem, and one I was aware of but also didn't see a quick/easy solution to (these were a very last-minute addition). I'd say the "proper" solution is either smarter AI for these fleets, or more unpopulated star systems to hide in.

Second some minor problems. This doesn't happen often but my game seems to crash when I save especially if I achieve a lot or leave it along time between saves. There also seems to be a lack of ships available in campaign I can only find about 3 different variants.

If you edit the vmparams file in the installation directory and change both places where it says "512" to "1024", that should fix it. The next release will include this tweak (which increases the memory allocated to for the game to use).

Again great work, thanks for the update and keep it up :)

Thank you :)
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Steven Shi

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #459 on: October 29, 2014, 11:12:28 PM »

Hi Alex,

Will you be implementing scanning, exploration, mining mechanics like how the Elite Beta 3.0 fleshed out its previous iteration?

As the above posts have touched on, current bounty hunting (and trading tbh) is more like a fetch quest then anything memorable. Is it practical to implement a 'scanner' equipment slot where you have to scan neutral fleet in order to find that 'mark' which doesn't have to be a pirate? Heck, maybe the pirate put a bounty on an official travelling from X to Y. Give occasional financial penalties to bounty hunters that destroy too many non-mark ships during combat so players will need to play smart even with a huge overwhelming fleet at disposal. Maybe do a Boba Fett where you have to transfer small but high-value cargo while other agents try to stop you thus forcing combat instead of letting you initiate all the time. I just feel we need to break up the current monotony of travel to X and kill Y.

Thanks to ED and SC, I really see Starfarer as a 2D alternative to this big interest in space sandbox. However, the success and failure of ED this year would also shape what people expect from a space sandbox more than probably what yourself envisioned for this game all those years ago. Hopefully, Starfarer will able to learn from ED's success/failure in game design.    
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 11:16:09 PM by SQW »
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bills6693

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #460 on: October 30, 2014, 08:57:27 AM »

I played as a bounty hunter a bit longer now, and I've got one major gripe.
It is quite disappointing to go after a 70 000 credit fleet and find but a handful of surviving, badly damaged frigates, at best. ...

Yeah, this is definitely a problem, and one I was aware of but also didn't see a quick/easy solution to (these were a very last-minute addition). I'd say the "proper" solution is either smarter AI for these fleets, or more unpopulated star systems to hide in.

How central is the idea of the universe going on without you? As bounty fleets are time-limited and outside the scope of normal fleet generation anyway (i.e. bounty pops up, fleet appears. Bounty expires, fleet dissapears) could it be that they become player-only interactions?

What I'm thinking is that a bounty fleet, in coding, technically belongs to bounty-only factions. Basically a bounty on a pirate would genrate a pirate fleet. To the player it would 'appear' the same. HOWEVER in the code, the fleet actually belongs to Pirate_bounty which is a fleet which is neutral to all other factions. But killing it DOES have the same reputation and bounty penalties on the player. In practice this just means that the fleet is immune to attack from other factions.

Spoiler
So for example if there is also a general bounty on the enemies of, say, tri-tachyon, then the bounty applies to if you kill ships belonging to factions - Pirate, pirate_bounty, hemegony, hemegony_bounty etc

Similarly killing a fleet of pirate_bounty reduces your popularity with faction pirate, and hostile relationship with faction pirate means faction pirate_bounty also hates your guts.
[close]

Overall the effect is simply a mirror faction for each existing faction that the bounty fleets belong to. Thus the only person that kills bounty fleets is the player. Others ignore them. Don't know if this fits well with the living universe, plus it may make the game seem weird (no pirate left in this system as they are hunted down by local forces, apart from this one fleet that is left totally alone).
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #461 on: October 30, 2014, 10:28:40 AM »

My take on the bounty hunting mechanic here.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #462 on: November 03, 2014, 02:29:27 AM »

The market condition "Headquarters" increases market power. What is market power, though?
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Creepin

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #463 on: November 03, 2014, 03:16:03 AM »

Hey all! I've just started playing vanilla 0.65 (great so far btw!), and saw a weirdest thing happening. I was after a pirate smuggler fleet (consisting of a single Hound, so not exactly a fleet per se), when it suddenly changed it's allegiance from "pirate" to "neutral", changing both title and fleet circle. This got me baffled: it was clearly pirate when i set course to intercept, but what will happen if I attack now anyway: will I drop my standing towards neutrals or pirates? Are NPC fleets ever allowed to do this at all? I have seen nothing on the matter in changelog, so any insight on the matter would be welcome :)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 08:36:30 AM by Creepin »
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Sordid

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Re: Starsector 0.65a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #464 on: November 03, 2014, 05:17:19 AM »

Hey all! I've just started playing vanilla 0.65 (great so far btw!), and saw a weirdest thing happening. I was after a pirate smuggler fleet (consisting of a single Hound, so not exactly a fleet per se), when it suddenly changed it's allegiance from "pirate" to "neutral", changing both title and fleet circle. This got me baffled: it was clearly pirate when i set course to intercept, but what will happen if I attack now anyway: will I drop my stnding towards neutrals or pirates? Are NPC fleets ever allowed to do this at all? I have senn nothing on the matter in changelog, so any insight on the matter would be welcome :)

Yeah, I've been wondering about that too. Is that a bug or is that meant to represent pirates broadcasting fake ID codes and posing as legit traders? IIRC they usually change from pirates into smugglers, which doesn't really make a whole lot of sense in that respect. Surely if you're going to use a fake identity to avoid being harassed by the law, you'd pick one that wouldn't also get harassed by the law?
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