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[Doogie]

@Cosmitz: Yeah, this came up a couple of posts back. It's nice to get a high-level idea that someone did something similar and it worked out well, but the last thing I want to do is pore over the details and copy it.

The game itself is text and turn based, so I think the actual logistics of how to implement these ideas into the real time Starsector would a good degree of ingenuity. Overall I think you should check it out (and maybe just play the game because its fun and a nice way to relax) and get some sort of idea of how to go with this trade system.

[Lcu]

This means there shall be more worlds for Hegemony and Tri-Tachyon, and more variables for pirate fleets.

[Obscure]

This means there shall be more worlds for Hegemony and Tri-Tachyon, and more variables for pirate fleets.

aw man, I would love to see a pirate AI that made fleets prowl shipping lanes based on supply/demand data.

[Alex]

Im a little worried about the... validity of the trade system. if it is *only* random events creating trade opportunities, there is a large problem. Additionally, some profit should be possible even without these events, so you have something to scrounge if you really need to.

What i mean is, all these fleets of traders roaming around, if a certain station has a pirate infestation at a certain point in its orbit maybe, that prevents any traders from getting to that station, during that period prices should rise due to lack of traders visiting and prices could go up.

I agree with the assessment that from your blog post, it sounds like trading will be nothing more than a thing you get a popup quest for every now and then and do, rather than a real profession that makes buying an atlas fleet worth it. It could just be from the blog's presentation rather than your actual intentions though.

Edit: additionally, if im not a trader getting trader event popups could get very annoying. it did in evochron mercenary and that was only for distress calls.

Was just looking through the comments and realized I totally missed this one; sorry about that!

I'm not sure why trade being event based would be a problem; you're saying it's because you need to be able to scrounge something up if you need to but... why is *that* necessary? In a nutshell, I see making money from standard trade as a bad thing because it encourages safe, boring trade runs. You might say that responding to an event isn't any better, but the difference (hopefully) is that you can do more interesting things to set yourself up to respond to an event effectively (such as, say, cultivating connections to get the information early, or even acting to create the necessary conditions for an event to occur), and then the actual "trade run" is the culmination of that work and planning, rather than being the actual work.

An Atlas fleet might be just the sort of thing you can use to really cash in on an event you took pains to predict/cause, while a faster fleet might be able to be more reactive, but wouldn't have the cargo space to really capitalize.

As far as the UI, popups would indeed be annoying. The idea is that you get messages (in the lower left corner, that widget is being reworked), and you can click on them to get additional information if you're interested. Otherwise, they can just be ignored.

[Megas]

If profitable trading can come only from pop-up quest events, it does not sound like something worth bothering.

I will just stick to killing and looting everything that moves, and conquering NPCs' assets if possible.

An Atlas fleet might be just the sort of thing you can use to really cash in on an event you took pains to predict/cause, while a faster fleet might be able to be more reactive, but wouldn't have the cargo space to really capitalize.

Right now, player needs Atlas fleet just to loot equal-sized opponents (bad in standard, worse in Exerelin), and being forced to use multiple Atlas ships (and Oxen and/or Navigation 10 to speed them up) for optimal play, which is a significant drain on Logistics, is obnoxious and not fun.

[PCCL]

I do believe the profitability of attacking armed fleets would be toned down a bit for balance after a proper economy is in

[Gothars]

I hope so, it's ridiculously high atm.

I will just stick to killing and looting everything that moves, and conquering NPCs' assets if possible.

If I get this right, Events will be something to look out for even if you have no inclination to trade. Intercepting supply convoys, breaking a blockade or looting a colony in distress are other ways to use them.

[icepick37]

Yeah it's more a system to let you know where the current action is. Which is nice. In theory it'll make the place feel more alive instead of just being a list of places with static boring attributes, things will be constantly changing.

[Sonlirain]

I'm not sure why trade being event based would be a problem; you're saying it's because you need to be able to scrounge something up if you need to but... why is *that* necessary? In a nutshell, I see making money from standard trade as a bad thing because it encourages safe, boring trade runs. You might say that responding to an event isn't any better, but the difference (hopefully) is that you can do more interesting things to set yourself up to respond to an event effectively (such as, say, cultivating connections to get the information early, or even acting to create the necessary conditions for an event to occur), and then the actual "trade run" is the culmination of that work and planning, rather than being the actual work.

There is a thing you overlook alex. There are players who simply LOVE doing spreadsheet style trading. Look at the X series and its fanbase... a giant part of the game is about trade and creating/shipping goods.
While you might think that simply going from A to B is boring ther ARE people who like doing just that so instead of discouraging people from commerce at every corner you should instead encourage people to do something else.

Flatspace 1 and 2 are great examples. The trade system is VERY bland and basic in both games (every station imports one class of goods and exports another and if you buy good x at a station selling it and sell it at a station that imports it you will ALWAYS make a profit no matter what) but... the game has also a LOT of missions you could do for money be it capturing criminals and delivering them to the police station or delivering some ornate statue to a faraway station.

So unless you REALLY wanted to buy a battlecruiser or carrier with a full squadron of fighters (largest ships in the game that cost unrealistic ammounts of money) you never had to faff around trade at all... ever.

[Gothars]

So the only good thing about trade in that game is that you don't have to do it? oO

But as you said, there are already plenty games that do spreadsheet trading, so I think it's great that we are getting something new here.

[xenoargh]

the game has also a LOT of missions you could do for money be it capturing criminals and delivering them to the police station or delivering some ornate statue to a faraway station

This is what keeps people playing, mainly; it's like the difference between a Cardamine run in Freelancer, which was very profitable, very hazardous and very lengthy, and being able to stack up credits taking care of local bandit problems. 

Granted, I think it would be cool if something like the Cardamine run existed, but making it happen, given the design of Hyperspace, would be hard.  If Hyperspace was a series of zones and required more than one hop, and if you could get "intercepted" when making Hyperspace jumps, it might work.

[Sonlirain]

So the only good thing about trade in that game is that you don't have to do it? oO

But as you said, there are already plenty games that do spreadsheet trading, so I think it's great that we are getting something new here.

Well yeah trade in flatspace was just dull as hell. Pretty much a textbook example of how to not do trading as it was totally undynamic so if you found one station selling and one buying then all you EVER did as a trader was just going back and forth between them. There was no looking for trade routes supply/demand (aside of literally random price fluctuations that were too small to matter anyway because if you bought someting from an exporter and sell it to an importer you WILL make profit) or production chains at all.

Now Alex wants to tie trade with events. And that's a great idea but making trade unprofitable EVERYWHERE else pretty much removes one playstyle and throws it out of the window.

[ciago92]

So the only good thing about trade in that game is that you don't have to do it? oO

But as you said, there are already plenty games that do spreadsheet trading, so I think it's great that we are getting something new here.

Well yeah trade in flatspace was just dull as hell. Pretty much a textbook example of how to not do trading as it was totally undynamic so if you found one station selling and one buying then all you EVER did as a trader was just going back and forth between them. There was no looking for trade routes supply/demand (aside of literally random price fluctuations that were too small to matter anyway because if you bought someting from an exporter and sell it to an importer you WILL make profit) or production chains at all.

Now Alex wants to tie trade with events. And that's a great idea but making trade unprofitable EVERYWHERE else pretty much removes one playstyle and throws it out of the window.

I think what Alex wants traders to do (and feel to step in and say I'm wrong Alex) is instead of just flying around delivering goods (which isn't that realistic, see the whole discussion about companies having arranged deals) is keep an ear to the ground for unusual needs, and then step in and fill them. I don't think it's removing the playstyle so much as focusing it. I'm sure it'll be balanced so that if you want to do that and invest the points properly you'll still be pretty busy hearing rumors and getting tips and acting on them

[Sundog]

I agree caigo92. None of us has a better idea of what Alex envisions for trading than Alex does, so if he thinks he can make event driven trading work it's kinda silly to say otherwise. I think I might see where Sonlirain is coming from though. Exploiting opportunities is all well and good until those opportunities dry up, in which case a player with a fleet full of freighters and tugs might as well just hold down shift until an appropriate event pops up. That might be an issue, but it wouldn't break trading.

[Gothars]

Exploiting opportunities is all well and good until those opportunities dry up, in which case a player with a fleet full of freighters and tugs might as well just hold down shift until an appropriate event pops up. That might be an issue, but it wouldn't break trading.

Well, if the average time between events is < the average time needed to resolve an event, there should be no problem. In fact, Alex plans to actually limit the information we get about events, so I would assume there will be several of them happening simultaneuosly, of which you have to choose one to interact with. Of course getting information abut an event is part of the challenge as well, that's probably what a trader spents his time on between actual runs.