Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 179 180 [181] 182 183 ... 197

Author Topic: [0.8a] Starsector+ 3.7.0  (Read 1111521 times)

ANGRYABOUTELVES

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
  • AE ALTADOON GHARTOK PADHOME
    • View Profile
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2700 on: April 09, 2016, 01:17:32 PM »

The updated version has smoother lines, and it looks sort of like a medieval broadhead arrow-tip. That's the look you're aiming for, right? Some of the edges on the front look a bit rough and pixel-y, but I expect I won't be able to notice that when it's set against a background or moving around in the battlespace.

The only ship removal I really mind is the Kestrel. The rest of them weren't very interesting, aside from the Avalon, and the Avalon presents game balance issues being a frigate-size carrier. Vanilla Starsector is trying to move away from carriers that hang way, way back and only exist to provide flight decks, so I think the Avalon's removal is a good thing.

Personally I think the Vulture is less distinct than the Kestrel; it's very similar to the Eagle. I haven't piloted either the Kestrel or the Vulture a lot, just a few rounds in the simulator, but I have fought a bunch of them, and fighting against the Vulture is a lot like fighting a slower Eagle with more missiles but less guns. When fighting against the Kestrel, you need to either have something fast'n'shooty enough to flank and threaten a cruiser on its own, or something that can take shots from a AAF'd large ballistic while something else flanks. Facing a Kestrel forces certain responses that other ships don't. I could understand if it was being removed because it was too good, but not that it's being removed for not being different enough.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 01:40:30 PM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
Logged

Dark.Revenant

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2588
    • View Profile
    • Sc2Mafia
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2701 on: April 09, 2016, 01:53:09 PM »

Personally I think the Vulture is less distinct than the Kestrel; it's very similar to the Eagle. I haven't piloted either the Kestrel or the Vulture a lot, just a few rounds in the simulator, but I have fought a bunch of them, and fighting against the Vulture is a lot like fighting a slower Eagle with more missiles but less guns. When fighting against the Kestrel, you need to either have something fast'n'shooty enough to flank and threaten a cruiser on its own, or something that can take shots from a AAF'd large ballistic while something else flanks. Facing a Kestrel forces certain responses that other ships don't. I could understand if it was being removed because it was too good, but not that it's being removed for not being different enough.

The Vulture plays nothing like most Eagle loadouts; it's a standoff style of ship, very fast, and slippery as hell.

The Kestrel had several things going against it, not just the lack of distinction (which, by the way, is because of those missiles and energy turrets more so than the large hardpoint).  The #1 issue was actually the sprite, which is based on the really old Eagle rather the updated or current Eagle.  #2 is the overlap with several other ships.  #3 is that it's too good as-is; it would need a different layout featuring smaller missile slots, perhaps small universals on turrets.  All these factors led to the decision to take it out; besides, Tartiflette plans on making a new version of it for Seeker.
Logged

ANGRYABOUTELVES

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
  • AE ALTADOON GHARTOK PADHOME
    • View Profile
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2702 on: April 09, 2016, 02:12:54 PM »

The Vulture plays nothing like most Eagle loadouts; it's a standoff style of ship, very fast, and slippery as hell.

The Kestrel had several things going against it, not just the lack of distinction (which, by the way, is because of those missiles and energy turrets more so than the large hardpoint).  The #1 issue was actually the sprite, which is based on the really old Eagle rather the updated or current Eagle.  #2 is the overlap with several other ships.  #3 is that it's too good as-is; it would need a different layout featuring smaller missile slots, perhaps small universals on turrets.  All these factors led to the decision to take it out; besides, Tartiflette plans on making a new version of it for Seeker.
I've always played the Eagle as a standoff/close support ship, and Maneuvering Jets does make the Eagle pretty slippery. I've never actually used a more close-range/assault style Eagle; they always seem to die too fast in the AI's hands for me to be comfortable with one.

Well, if those are the reasons for the Kestrel being removed, you should have said so. :P
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 02:14:27 PM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
Logged

Dark.Revenant

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2588
    • View Profile
    • Sc2Mafia
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2703 on: April 09, 2016, 02:19:29 PM »

I've always played the Eagle as a standoff/close support ship, and Maneuvering Jets does make the Eagle pretty slippery. I've never actually used a more close-range/assault style Eagle; they always seem to die too fast in the AI's hands for me to be comfortable with one.

Well, if those are the reasons for the Kestrel being removed, you should have said so. :P

An eagle does best with a mixed standoff-brawl loadout; stay afar until you close in and punish.  The Vulture is cheaper and more effective at pure unmitigated standoff.
Logged

Sy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1225
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2704 on: April 09, 2016, 03:52:57 PM »

i agree Eagle and Vulture play very differently, at least how i use them. Vulture has significantly less hybrid firepower, but it's speed, turrets and medium missiles make it my favorite SS+ flagship in early-to-mid game, and good in a light artillery / long-range support role in bigger fleets.
Logged

BHunterSEAL

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2705 on: April 10, 2016, 07:40:51 PM »

I think my sectors' supply production is almost always out of balance when using SS+. I try to keep things pretty close to Vanilla so right now my only faction mod is the Imperium; I'd used the Tiangdong mod in the past but it appears to be several patches out-of-date. If anyone is getting reasonable Supply production / pricing with other SS+ compatible faction mods I'd love to hear what your setup is... I would like to keep my faction setup relatively close to vanilla balance / "fluff" however.
Logged

Dark.Revenant

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2588
    • View Profile
    • Sc2Mafia
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2706 on: April 10, 2016, 08:10:49 PM »

I think my sectors' supply production is almost always out of balance when using SS+. I try to keep things pretty close to Vanilla so right now my only faction mod is the Imperium; I'd used the Tiangdong mod in the past but it appears to be several patches out-of-date. If anyone is getting reasonable Supply production / pricing with other SS+ compatible faction mods I'd love to hear what your setup is... I would like to keep my faction setup relatively close to vanilla balance / "fluff" however.

SS+ normalizes supply costs.  What numbers are you seeing?

II does affect supplies because it has several large markets, including a size-7.  I don't think that any of the SS+ factions aside from II have a market that large.
Logged

BHunterSEAL

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2707 on: April 10, 2016, 09:05:11 PM »

They start out higher than vanilla (normal for SS+) but they do seem to creep up and up across all systems as time passes. For example, Jangala starts around 110-125 and by mid-4/206 they're at 164 with no disrupting events.

Makes that II causes some increase due to higher demand, but if the entire sector is short how are supplies supposed to normalize? Oddly when playing with Tiandong this didn't seem to happen, I'm not sure if their systems added supply production or what.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 09:10:18 PM by BHunterSEAL »
Logged

Dark.Revenant

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2588
    • View Profile
    • Sc2Mafia
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2708 on: April 10, 2016, 09:24:22 PM »

Hegemony is vengeful with the Interstellar Imperium, a huge supply-producer (and consumer).  This likely drives up prices due to smuggling or some nonsense like that.  If you have THI and/or some other mods, this cancels out.
Logged

BHunterSEAL

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2709 on: April 10, 2016, 09:57:19 PM »

Yes, adding BRDY (which appears to be vanilla-balanced) substantially reduced starting supply prices, I will see if this holds. Thanks for the info! Can't wait to have THI back though.
Logged

CitizenJoe

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 23
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2710 on: April 10, 2016, 10:06:18 PM »

Yes, adding BRDY (which appears to be vanilla-balanced) substantially reduced starting supply prices, I will see if this holds. Thanks for the info! Can't wait to have THI back though.

Theres a hotfix for THI on the 8th page of its thread  :)
Logged

BHunterSEAL

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2711 on: April 11, 2016, 07:54:26 AM »

Apparently prices get wacky again when you throw in Junk Pirates without another "real" faction to balance out the attrition
Logged

Surge

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
  • Go big or go home.
    • View Profile
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2712 on: April 11, 2016, 01:26:29 PM »

To go back to the topic of impending ship removals.

I'm definitely okay with the Tundra and Avalon going away as the Tundra was just an even worse version of ships already so bad there was no non-cargo reason to use them, not to mention redundant with the mudskipper now being a thing, and the Avalon was a frigate sized carrier, which is pointless because it was so rare and any money you might have been saving was basically negated by how much you were gonna spend on the fighters anyways, you may as well pony up for a Condor that won't die to any stiff breeze.

The Vista and Sloop I think still have a place, they're a bit meatier than the vanilla civilian ships, and I think that's a handy bit of variety to have a few "civilian" ships with at least mediocre bite to them.

The Summit is just "baby's first cruiser" as far as I can tell, an anchor for fleets that can't afford an Eagle or Falcon either because of money or reputation, it doesn't feel redundant alongside the Starliner at all.

I never use shuttles so I won't comment on the Tick.

I'm 100% in favor of a Camel rework, it's just as overall underwhelming as the Mule is.

I'm reaaaaally getting a bad taste in my mouth over the reason we're removing the Kestrel, since it basically amounts to balancing SS+ against THI, I very much like the whole Eagle family of cruisers and the variety it has, but I guess the consequence of that is that I can't think of anything I really like about the Kestrel in particular.

Never used the Locomotive or Sentinel, I gotta say I don't really care if they get the axe.

Now the Bull...the Bull is a ship I have encountered frequently and used myself, and I'm definitely against doing away with this, the fact that the Mudskipper MkII and Buffalo MkII together do the same thing as a single Bull is more of a plus for the Bull than anything, it's supposed to be on the upper curve of ridiculous junkyard engineering and it's actually an okay destroyer for what it is, so while those two ships do the same thing, the Bull does them better. Plus there is just simply no such thing as too much variety for pirates, in any other faction trimming the fat on ship rosters is pretty okay, no sense in paying exorbitant fees to maintain production of a ship that is for most intents and purposes redundant, but the pirates are just non-standard ships and equipment as far as the eye can see.
Logged

Dark.Revenant

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2588
    • View Profile
    • Sc2Mafia
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2713 on: April 11, 2016, 02:23:48 PM »

Summit and Sloop were okay in design but not in sprite.  I took those out because of appearance most of all, since their similar-looking cousins were being killed off.

Kestrel has a bunch of reasons for going, plus it will show up revamped in Seeker (which SS+ will integrate).

Bull is up to Cycerin.  If he revamps it like he plans to with most of the other PP ships, I'll put it back in.
Logged

Orikson

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • Always Seen on Discord
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [0.7.2a] Starsector+ 3.4.0
« Reply #2714 on: April 11, 2016, 07:49:52 PM »

Summit and Sloop were okay in design but not in sprite.  I took those out because of appearance most of all, since their similar-looking cousins were being killed off.

Kestrel has a bunch of reasons for going, plus it will show up revamped in Seeker (which SS+ will integrate).

Bull is up to Cycerin.  If he revamps it like he plans to with most of the other PP ships, I'll put it back in.

Ok, so when is the expected update with the Seeker integrated in? I thought Seeker was a stand alone that hasn't been updated to the 0.7 version yet.
Logged
"A story teller and a trader. Tell me your tales and I'll tell you no lies."

Come join the Starsector Fan Chat! It's decently active.

Link: https://discord.gg/eb5UC
Pages: 1 ... 179 180 [181] 182 183 ... 197