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Author Topic: [0.65.1a] The Patrian Principate Alpha v2.2 - The Patrian Navy  (Read 77027 times)

NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2013, 02:55:17 PM »

For one thing the carrier practically has an absolute defence against and fightercraft. It looks really cool; while it costs a good amount of expensive supplies to maintain a carrier fleet, its really fun to manage bomber wings and fighters while in the back of the battle from a command ship. To be honest, you kind of have to prey on independent merchants to stay up and running for long though.

I also just realised the charger was only faster because of my crew level.

At first, I wanted the Carriers to be entirely unarmed.  However, this wouldn't have worked well with Starsector, so I gave them entirely defensive weaponry with a modest support profile.  However, they also have one launch deck more than vanilla-standard classes do, making them extremely specialized carriers.  They're also fairly fragile, so they doubly don't want to ever be in direct combat.

And yes, the huge consumption of supplies goes for any Patrian Naval fleet; that's one of their weaknesses.
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Wunder

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2013, 12:38:32 PM »

With the super carrier give it 3 triple barreled cannons
You'know
Like yamatos
2 on the front and 1 on the back to give it quite a real look. If you want, make a ship with just a built in weapon and 2 defenses
the super carrier could have at least 5 decks of fighters
Give it detail, add medium dual batteries, radar, 3 lauch runways, one diagonal, I might be going OCD but I want this ship to be the heart of any patrian battle fleet.
My final post, as im leaving

bye, forever.
My last days as a commander.
Probally 2 people wanting me to stay anyway.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 12:52:03 PM by GGMC »
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NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2013, 01:32:32 PM »

With the super carrier give it 3 triple barreled cannons
You'know
Like yamatos
2 on the front and 1 on the back to give it quite a real look. If you want, make a ship with just a built in weapon and 2 defenses
the super carrier could have at least 5 decks of fighters
Give it detail, add medium dual batteries, radar, 3 lauch runways, one diagonal, I might be going OCD but I want this ship to be the heart of any patrian battle fleet.
My final post, as im leaving

bye, forever.
My last days as a commander.
Probally 2 people wanting me to stay anyway.

I actually already had the "Super carrier" envisioned.  It's quite different from how you say, though there could conceivably be room for two of them.

Also, what's this about you leaving?
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2013, 02:45:29 PM »

I played a bit the campaign with the Patrians. And in all honesty, it was really fun.

Their ships can use broadside pretty efficiently and have some of the best carriers in the sector. However they are pretty tricky to play, as you said they have huge supply consumption and it can really put you in tough spots. For now they don't have proper freighters (i used a Mule in my game) to gather enough supply for a raiding party.

Not much to say, i still have to try the big ships (progression is very long with them) but everything seems balanced.

However i still had some trouble distinguishing each ships from another in combat. They all roughly have the same shape, some different colors or details would help. Same thing for the fighter wings, it's pretty difficult to differentiate each ASF in a fight.

Also, i love the small missiles in this mod. They feel so satisfying to use! Speaking of weapons, i always run out of ammo (even with expended hull mod) with the rotary assault cannon, so it might need a bit more capacity.

Really good job for a first mod.

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NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2013, 03:37:34 PM »

I played a bit the campaign with the Patrians. And in all honesty, it was really fun.

Their ships can use broadside pretty efficiently and have some of the best carriers in the sector. However they are pretty tricky to play, as you said they have huge supply consumption and it can really put you in tough spots. For now they don't have proper freighters (i used a Mule in my game) to gather enough supply for a raiding party.

Not much to say, i still have to try the big ships (progression is very long with them) but everything seems balanced.

However i still had some trouble distinguishing each ships from another in combat. They all roughly have the same shape, some different colors or details would help. Same thing for the fighter wings, it's pretty difficult to differentiate each ASF in a fight.

Also, i love the small missiles in this mod. They feel so satisfying to use! Speaking of weapons, i always run out of ammo (even with expended hull mod) with the rotary assault cannon, so it might need a bit more capacity.

Really good job for a first mod.



 :D

The mod's weapons are a tricky business to sort out, because most of them were exclusively designed for use on fighters.  The Rotary Autocannon was quite literally designed just for the GAC-47.  Its horrible turning rate (same with the other weapons) as well as its low ammo capacity are primarily there to discourage use on large ships.  That said, its DPS used to be better, and it used to be more efficient, but I nerfed all that at some point.  So, I'll probably make them better to use on proper ships.
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2013, 04:53:17 PM »

Oh... That explain the thing. I'm always playing in dev-mode with the restock mod so every weapons in the game (even those we aren't supposed to get) are available in stations. But yeah, those weapons, if a bit weak, are pretty fun to use on standard ships. You should definitely add at least modified variants for vessels other than wings.
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2013, 07:58:11 AM »

Played some more. Mid game is probably the most difficult part with Patrians as the faction don't really have enough firepower to fight.

The Charger can be lackluster for a destroyer if you want some power and other destroyers are support ships. For the cruisers, the Lithuania is nice with its fortress shield, but while it is tanky, it lack the guns to stand against Dominators and other though ships, and it don't have frontal weapons. Pretty much the same thing with the Bastion, even though the large mount help a lot.

So a carrier fleet, even if it is crazy expensive to maintain, is definitely the way to go, since Patrians fighters are some of the best in the game.

That's it, until you can get your hand on the Yamato. That's the first and only powerhouse of the faction. You can throw it into slugfest against Onslaughts and win. I could almost say that the Yamato is overpowered. The Mayflower is a weird one. It has 7 large mounts but that's all, obviously it's a long range fire support ship but i didn't liked that much the Widebore used on it. First it cost 50 op, it produce a insane amount of flux, and the projectiles are very slow and not accurate, so not very good for sniping. The massive range and damage was super-efficient against giant Zorg ships though. But aside for fighting the flying death-boxes, i usually preferred to replace the Widebore with Gauss cannons, even if it waste a bit the ordnance points of the ships.

Overall, i think you should nerf a little bit the Yamato and buff the projectile speed of the Widebore. Also maybe switching at least one of the medium mounts to the front for the Lithuania cruiser. Other than this, everything is good.

And another thing. It is really difficult to attack Patrians fleets. Either you can fight the patrol fleet which is mid-game level, or the system defense one, which is end-game level. Would be cool if we had something in between to toy with, also some small scout fleets for early game.
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NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2013, 03:03:15 PM »

Played some more. Mid game is probably the most difficult part with Patrians as the faction don't really have enough firepower to fight.

The Charger can be lackluster for a destroyer if you want some power and other destroyers are support ships. For the cruisers, the Lithuania is nice with its fortress shield, but while it is tanky, it lack the guns to stand against Dominators and other though ships, and it don't have frontal weapons. Pretty much the same thing with the Bastion, even though the large mount help a lot.

So a carrier fleet, even if it is crazy expensive to maintain, is definitely the way to go, since Patrians fighters are some of the best in the game.

That's it, until you can get your hand on the Yamato. That's the first and only powerhouse of the faction. You can throw it into slugfest against Onslaughts and win. I could almost say that the Yamato is overpowered. The Mayflower is a weird one. It has 7 large mounts but that's all, obviously it's a long range fire support ship but i didn't liked that much the Widebore used on it. First it cost 50 op, it produce a insane amount of flux, and the projectiles are very slow and not accurate, so not very good for sniping. The massive range and damage was super-efficient against giant Zorg ships though. But aside for fighting the flying death-boxes, i usually preferred to replace the Widebore with Gauss cannons, even if it waste a bit the ordnance points of the ships.

Overall, i think you should nerf a little bit the Yamato and buff the projectile speed of the Widebore. Also maybe switching at least one of the medium mounts to the front for the Lithuania cruiser. Other than this, everything is good.

And another thing. It is really difficult to attack Patrians fleets. Either you can fight the patrol fleet which is mid-game level, or the system defense one, which is end-game level. Would be cool if we had something in between to toy with, also some small scout fleets for early game.

Thank you for the excellent feedback!

It sounds like I did a pretty bang up job with how the ships work.  The ships were intended to be mildly underpowered, especially in comparison to the fighters.  However, I can make efficiency adjustments to make them a little better.

I'm not going to change the Lithuania much besides some flux capacity.  Instead, I intend to make a more fragile assault cruiser that benefits from the protection of the Lithuania.

The Yamato can get some flux and survivability nerfs; that ought to keep it in line.

The Widebore cannonades were a worrisome bit for me, because they're one of those "high alpha damage" weapons that are potentially really overpowered.  The Mayflower can get off about three shots before it needs to vent, but then it can get the other two off before the first ones are done reloading, putting out a horrifying volley of humongous HE damage at extreme ranges.  It's a support vessel, but I don't know how well the AI handles it, so I can buff the projectile speed a little.  And yes, you're supposed to use nothing else than the cannonades.  I was going to make them built in, but that artificially deflates the OP value and I'm not really happy with that as I'm pretty sure that's important for AI threat calculations and autoresolve results (important for system defense fleets and such).

Oh, and by the way, I've been pretty busy lately, so expect updates to be a little more sparse than most mods.  They'll be pretty extensive though, depending on how much feedback I get.
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ArkAngel

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2013, 02:29:30 PM »

I think the patrian's are also kind of lacking any real cargo/fuel ships which would be a nice addition. Also for the mayflower to be worth anything you need to have the advanced turning gyros hull mod, otherwise the cannons just turn so slow. Also do you intend to add any ships based on missiles? I suppose you already have submarines but those are pretty much free fire with the exception of the groundhog.
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ApetureUnicorn

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2013, 12:51:52 AM »

do the patrians have a base or something? :-\  i don't know where to buy the ships they look AWESOME ;D :D
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Isaew

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2013, 01:58:48 AM »

Very interesting. And yes, it obviously got some IFed feel into them, or even the ISA from Ironclad. For the bugged long, thin ship syndrome, i expected it to be fixed with 0.6, apparently not. It shouldn't pose any problems for the ships except maybe the capitals one.

The sprites will need some more work however. Especially the fighters which are pretty plain. Shouldn't be a problem to add some more greeble to them or even searching for a sprite already done somewhere (just look for shoot'em'up sprites, they are hundreds of them that would perfectly fit.)

Edit: here's an example.

Spoiler
[close]

If you want, i'll be able to help you improving/cleaning some of them.

Ah, another observation. I think the weapons mounts on the Yamato are too close to each other and with weapons it will look weird. Haven't tried the mod yet so i could be wrong.

Anyway, downloading right now, i'll play as soon as i can.

OMG
these fighters are fabulous!
Wanna see then in the game!
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NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2013, 04:28:44 AM »

do the patrians have a base or something? :-\  i don't know where to buy the ships they look AWESOME ;D :D

Patria is located east of Askonia.  They don't have a base in Corvus; you have to go to hyperspace.

OMG
these fighters are fabulous!
Wanna see then in the game!


Ideally, the quality of my fighters will resemble those in the future.  However, I have a lot of improvement to do, as I'm an amateur spriter at best.  Some of them resembles design I've wanted to use, so you might see them in future updates (never too many fighters in the Patrian Navy!).
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Bjørn_in_the_Sector

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2013, 05:43:11 PM »

Holy ____ (insert preferred exclamation here) that 400mm Cannonade is ridiculous. Not that I'm complaining, though :P
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ApetureUnicorn

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2013, 12:41:42 AM »

east of Askonia got thx! ;D :D
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NikolaiLev

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Re: [0.6.1a] The Patrian Principate V1 - The Patrian Navy
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2013, 03:48:20 PM »

Holy ____ (insert preferred exclamation here) that 400mm Cannonade is ridiculous. Not that I'm complaining, though :P

 ;D

Glad you like it!
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