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Author Topic: Starsector 0.6.2a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 214883 times)

Gibbatron

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #90 on: December 13, 2013, 05:27:40 PM »

Quote
I don't think that's so bad. It IS a captial ship after all.
I think either capital ships are too expensive or we do not get enough base Logistics.  Before v0.6, the player had exactly enough base fleet points (25) for the biggest ship, the Paragon.  Of course, Astral plus fighters cost more.  Now, player needs Leadership and Fleet Logistics 2 to pilot the biggest ship with full crew.

It actually needs more, because running a solo paragon is hard now so you usually need a supporting fleet. I think it just seems like a problem at the moment because capital ships are so readily accessible. My understanding of the final vision of the game is that capitals will be extremely rare and uber expensive, most definitely end game ships, so logistics shouldn't be a problem then.

Which is a shame because personally I think they look a little underwhelming.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #91 on: December 14, 2013, 07:11:24 AM »

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It actually needs more, because running a solo paragon is hard now so you usually need a supporting fleet. I think it just seems like a problem at the moment because capital ships are so readily accessible. My understanding of the final vision of the game is that capitals will be extremely rare and uber expensive, most definitely end game ships, so logistics shouldn't be a problem then.
Yes, Leadership 2 is for the biggest capital only; player needs more Leadership for additional ships.  Logistics can only be increased by putting points in Leadership.  If Leadership is ignored, the player can never pilot a capital (except Conquest) without taking CR damage.  This hurts as long as the soft level cap is about 35-40, for roughly 20 AP.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #92 on: December 14, 2013, 01:42:57 PM »

Quote
It actually needs more, because running a solo paragon is hard now so you usually need a supporting fleet. I think it just seems like a problem at the moment because capital ships are so readily accessible. My understanding of the final vision of the game is that capitals will be extremely rare and uber expensive, most definitely end game ships, so logistics shouldn't be a problem then.
Yes, Leadership 2 is for the biggest capital only; player needs more Leadership for additional ships.  Logistics can only be increased by putting points in Leadership.  If Leadership is ignored, the player can never pilot a capital (except Conquest) without taking CR damage.  This hurts as long as the soft level cap is about 35-40, for roughly 20 AP.

I agree it hurts - but thats the whole point.  The system is designed so that you can't have it all - you have to choose what to be good at. Once leadership is filled out and we get anything in industry the choices are going to be a lot harder too :)
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #93 on: December 14, 2013, 07:22:23 PM »

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I agree it hurts - but thats the whole point.  The system is designed so that you can't have it all - you have to choose what to be good at. Once leadership is filled out and we get anything in industry the choices are going to be a lot harder too
All the more reason to let the player pilot any one ship without Leadership requirements like in v0.54.  I do not care how that gets done, either lower Logistics cost of capitals, raise base Logistics, or raise experience gains so that soft cap is ten levels higher than it is now.  Choices are already hard enough.  Combat and Technology have so much great stuff that I do not have enough skill points to get everything I want even if I totally ignore Leadership, and I need Leadership (specifically Fleet Logistics only) just to cope with CR.  With current gameplay, I anticipate Industry with dread.
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Flare

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #94 on: December 14, 2013, 07:36:10 PM »

I've never been a fan of plateauing the leveling at latter levels. I'd rather progress not slow or stop even at the cost of shrinking down the rewards to continue the sense of progression, and putting in elements that can give a high end player a run for their money or better yet some system where the top few powers in the game are constantly engaged in an arms race that the player can nudge into.
The last two is probably an impossible load of work though, and the first one is probably going to need a lot of rebalancing that might be too late for this stage of the game.
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Linnis

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #95 on: December 14, 2013, 10:28:18 PM »

yup, the progression speed drops way too fast  :P
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pigreko

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2013, 06:47:02 PM »

I've never been a fan of plateauing the leveling at latter levels. I'd rather progress not slow or stop even at the cost of shrinking down the rewards to continue the sense of progression, and putting in elements that can give a high end player a run for their money or better yet some system where the top few powers in the game are constantly engaged in an arms race that the player can nudge into.
The last two is probably an impossible load of work though, and the first one is probably going to need a lot of rebalancing that might be too late for this stage of the game.

I do not agree with you that much on this point.  A slow progression rate with small improvements is just sad. It is like never accomplishing a thing. I hate those rpg games where you almost always get +% of something instead of new abilities, talents and stuff like that. when you get to use a cool subsystem, when you get to  be in zero flux mode even with some percentage of flux being already up, when you can finally put burst lasers everywhere cause you have lot of op... it is rewarding. To stop the sense of progression you really need to play many ours and cap every skill, I really do not see from where your observation is coming about the progression.

The last 2 are just elements that could easily be part of the game campaign. This combat sandbox is not just the whole starsector state of affair.
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Cycerin

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #97 on: December 18, 2013, 04:17:31 AM »

There isn't really "plateauing" in the levelling system as much as there simply is no endgame content. If you want endgame content you'll have to go to mods for it.
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Sabaton

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #98 on: December 18, 2013, 10:35:07 PM »

 The leveling system can be fixed: simply make leveling up require a constant amount of xp instead of always adding a few zeros.
 That way you can progress constantly instead of slowing down to a stop, and it isn't OP either since 90% of the skills only affect your flag ship, sure, it would be a slow start at first because you'd need a number not easily reachable but once you'd get some momentum you'd be fine.  
 I've played games like these and I liked it a hell of a lot more than the soul crushing MMORPG grinding, which, in SS, made me lose interest in campaign after level 40-ish.
 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 10:40:01 PM by Sabaton »
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Flare

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #99 on: December 18, 2013, 11:08:53 PM »

I've never been a fan of plateauing the leveling at latter levels. I'd rather progress not slow or stop even at the cost of shrinking down the rewards to continue the sense of progression, and putting in elements that can give a high end player a run for their money or better yet some system where the top few powers in the game are constantly engaged in an arms race that the player can nudge into.
The last two is probably an impossible load of work though, and the first one is probably going to need a lot of rebalancing that might be too late for this stage of the game.

I do not agree with you that much on this point.  A slow progression rate with small improvements is just sad. It is like never accomplishing a thing. I hate those rpg games where you almost always get +% of something instead of new abilities, talents and stuff like that. when you get to use a cool subsystem, when you get to  be in zero flux mode even with some percentage of flux being already up, when you can finally put burst lasers everywhere cause you have lot of op... it is rewarding. To stop the sense of progression you really need to play many ours and cap every skill, I really do not see from where your observation is coming about the progression.

Well then it's a good thing I'm not suggesting that.

Progression need not be slower when each level and each skill is divided into smaller chunks. If anything progression would become much faster, especially during the early game and would continue for far longer instead of dwindling off instead of the quick plateauing that happens now.
It's like this: 10000 exp is given. In situation one the player gains 3 levels and gets 20% in a skill. In situation two, the player gains 9 levels and 20% in a skill. Or, you could lower that 20% down to 15%.

Never accomplishing anything is a valid issue, but this isn't synonymous with a slower progression. Slower =/= slow, the progression right now I feel is quite fast in terms of how quickly the bonuses stack up. That slow tree cutting and mining thing with the MM in Starbound is certainly this issue where it is quite correct to say that a lot doesn't happen and this problem would apply, but there would be something awarded if rewards were divided up into smaller bits. While the rewards would be much smaller, they would happen much more frequently. Right now, in the beginning it's all about getting credits to buy more/better ships, later in the game when leveling peters out, it's mostly about getting more credits and buying stuff, leveling and bettering your character's skills simply slows down in molasses and almost stops and progression simply comes down to gaining credits.

As for talents, abilities and stuff like that, I don't think I said anything about the bonuses at the middle and end of the skill tree.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 11:12:55 PM by Flare »
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"Now witness the firepower of this thoroughly buggy and unoperational batt... Oh, hell, you know what? Just ignore the battle station, okay?"

CedricO

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #100 on: December 22, 2013, 02:01:44 PM »

Im curious as to how this game is progressing.... Been a while. :)
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #101 on: December 28, 2013, 11:52:17 AM »

Updated.
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Psigun

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #102 on: December 28, 2013, 12:05:46 PM »

Updated.

Thanks for the update Alex! Sounds good, and looking forward to the next release, whenever that may be. ;D

It feels like the basic game and mods are starting to come into their own.
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #103 on: December 28, 2013, 12:12:59 PM »

Thats a lot of stuff yeah, good job Alex, that difficulty stuff and added dialogs etc will hopefully stop the mountains of crying threads we have had here this past update. ;D

looking forward to the new frigate.
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FasterThanSleepyfish

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Re: Starsector 0.6.2a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #104 on: December 28, 2013, 12:20:05 PM »

This update is better than a glass of water on a hot day, on a desert planet with salt-grain winds in a distant solar system with a binary star with never-ending daytime.
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