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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Feedback about fighters, CP and maybe some bugs  (Read 6844 times)

Thaago

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Re: Feedback about fighters, CP and maybe some bugs
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2013, 09:56:23 PM »

I love daggers, though I think the AI is a bit twerked. 4 Dagger wings rallied and striked on an Onslaught will cripple the thing - if I'm engaging it in a destroyer or otherwise harass its flux up the 4 wings is an instant kill. Of course thats 20 deployment points, but they are cheap...
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miljan

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Re: Feedback about fighters, CP and maybe some bugs
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2013, 12:59:40 PM »


You are taking the whole thing the wrong way.
Right now, you are looking at it from the game's current but unfinished point of view.
When "officers" will be in, you WILL be forced to use them because in practice, they represent the guy piloting the ships you arent. Indirectly quoting alex, he said you'll have to manage your officers decently so that a cowardly one dosent end up commanding an assault ship and so on.

In short, you must look at this not from the game's current naked combat aspect, but from what it will look like when its finished.
Will wait and see, but i dont see if the CP limit is still there how it will do anything for the game
And by the way. in-game, you are the admiral of your entire fleet. Even in real-life, a general will not micro-manage his entire division during missions. He gives orders to his lower officers who then delegate themselves and get the job done.
Even in real life you are not limited how many times you can contact your offices to give orders.
That is generally my main complaint, not going through officers, but limiting how many times you can do things.

I love daggers, though I think the AI is a bit twerked. 4 Dagger wings rallied and striked on an Onslaught will cripple the thing - if I'm engaging it in a destroyer or otherwise harass its flux up the 4 wings is an instant kill. Of course thats 20 deployment points, but they are cheap...

Hmm i never used Daggers, but i use 4 wings of bombers that can carry two torpedoes (dont remember the name), so its totally of 16 torpedoes , while 4 daggers can have 12. Maybe i should try them out, as they are little faster than the ones I am using and cost less deployment points
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Giangiotto

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Re: Feedback about fighters, CP and maybe some bugs
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2013, 01:06:21 PM »

About CP:
Imho it makes sense for it to be limited to a maximum amount of commands issued but the points should come back after some time from cancelling a command.
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miljan

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Re: Feedback about fighters, CP and maybe some bugs
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2013, 01:22:07 PM »

About CP:
Imho it makes sense for it to be limited to a maximum amount of commands issued but the points should come back after some time from cancelling a command.
Yee, would like that. When you dont want something like guard anymore you can cancel it and after some time you will get the CP back. That or slow "regeneration" of CP after using
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xenoargh

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Re: Feedback about fighters, CP and maybe some bugs
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2013, 08:36:24 AM »

I just want to say that:

1.  I agree with the OP, Fighters are taking far too many Deployment Points.  But they're largely fine up until the point where the AI fleets start having far more DP than players. 

Alex has said that this is for performance reasons, so that means that increasing the number of Fighters is impractical.  Therefore, they probably need to be buffed.

2.  Strike fighters really need to engage at maximum ranges and then return to refit, in order to have reasonable survivability.  However, that means that if you're going to use them, they need to be deployed in numbers that will be effective, so that they'll saturate.

3.  Bombers remain almost totally ineffective for costs.

4.  The assault fighters (Gladius et al) don't have a single member with a shield, making them absurdly vulnerable to AOE spam and beams.  They either need a moderate increase in armor or a Shield with a poor efficiency ratio.

5.  The Mining Pod is a demonstration of futility.  Mining Lasers lack the range, damage or anything else to be effective and are by far one of the worst weapons in the game.  Honestly, I think the main problem there is the weapon.

6.  The more-refits-per-deck thing works, but I'm really not sure the 10-chassis-per-fighter works.  If that was a different value for each fighter type (so that, say, Talons got 30 but a shielded Gladius got 10) it'd be a powerful and useful balance tool.

7.  Some of the fighters need at least one additional member in their Wings to be truly effective, as they're practically guaranteed to lose a member on the way in and are then largely ineffective.  Some Wings need a setting that prevents them from going into action until their replacements have arrived, so that they'll be effective at all.

8.  It'd be nice if Wings were a convenience during non-combat periods, but the fighters used individual AI.  They get hammered so often because they're not using dispersal well.
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Thaago

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Re: Feedback about fighters, CP and maybe some bugs
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2013, 12:08:19 PM »

...

Hmm i never used Daggers, but i use 4 wings of bombers that can carry two torpedoes (dont remember the name), so its totally of 16 torpedoes , while 4 daggers can have 12. Maybe i should try them out, as they are little faster than the ones I am using and cost less deployment points

Also remember that the dual torpedo bombers (Tridents?) use Atropos torpedos, that while guided do half the damage that Reaper torpedoes do. So the wing of 4 Daggers: Takes only 20 deployment points instead of 32, fly faster, and does half again as much damage... if the torpedoes hit. They almost always hit against capitals, though its more dicey against cruisers and desoyers. Of course the Tridents have 3(!) lr pd lasers each so they are actually pretty good as escort ships, whereas daggers will chase other fighters even though they have no weapons to shoot at them.
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Flare

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Re: Feedback about fighters, CP and maybe some bugs
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2013, 11:53:37 PM »

The problem is, the AI is not very good. I would not have need to control it myself if the AI did  good job, but it is not the case, and i think it will never be the case as making a good AI is extremely hard.

How is it lacking from your perspective? After using it for a year or two, I generally find that it does its job quite well. What kind of orders are you giving and what goals are you setting your forces out to accomplish?

The AI for example, can handily beat newbs and for a good bit after the initial hurdle can still prove to be a challenge and capitalize on mistakes players make.

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Also, limiting CP actually force you to use the AI, not because they are good, but because you dont have any other option.

The direct control thing was replaced with CPs, because for most of the time people were staring at the warroom instead of actually commanding their ship. I guess it'd be like playing M&B entirely on the command interface. It's a waste of a game that isn't designed for an RTS experience, wherein playing it in an RTS standpoint might in some cases net you better numbers at the end, but not actually be that fun to do so. A limiter that reflects the complexities of maintaining a command structure across an entire fleet during battle was a way to push the game more into the rpg role of the game while still retaining a little bit of the RTS portion.
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PCCL

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Re: Feedback about fighters, CP and maybe some bugs
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2013, 02:18:53 AM »

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3.  Bombers remain almost totally ineffective for costs.
this, the piranha really needs a buff (done in personal mod, about doubled their firepower but lowered ammo count so no more than one strike per run)

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5.  The Mining Pod is a demonstration of futility.  Mining Lasers lack the range, damage or anything else to be effective and are by far one of the worst weapons in the game.  Honestly, I think the main problem there is the weapon.
I always thought that's the idea... Mining Pods aren't exactly the kind to be used in a fight against anything save for asteroids. I don't think they need to be buffed, just remain useless until mining gets implemented I guess

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