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[Gothars]

Let us all remember, there is a whole unpopulated tree. Skill balance right now is all going out the window once industry gets added, leadership gets some buffs, and we ate able to hire captains.

Truth.

It will be interesting to see if we'll have to manage with the current amount of AP/SP or if those will get a boost, too.

[Megas]

Hopefully, Industry will be the tree for pacifist players.  I want to level to at least 44 to finish my character, and getting XP past the high 30's (for about 20 AP) is tedious.  Combat has at least four skills I want to max due to game-changing perks.  Leadership has the most powerful skill in the game, Fleet Logistics.  Technology has several powerful hullmods that are perks in their own right (e.g., ITU, current Augmented Engines), +OP%, and Navigation (to let your fleet catch others).

[Taverius]

Couple of things Alex ...

- Navigation, can you add in the info at what level it allows you to jump into systems using the star? Might be nice if it gave a level-by-level of the burn bonus too.

- Yeah, having taken a further look at it, I think the DP values for some of the Civilian ships are too high. A Buffalo Mk.1 sure isn't worth 5 DP of frigate. A Tarsus is maybe 4, it sure as heck ain't worth more in a fight than a Lasher.

[zakastra]

DP isn't so much as its battlefield worth, its more the burden it places upon the command structure. Ensuring a barely armed civilian craft performs usefully in combat is a lot more work than directing the actions of a well drilled combat crew in a dedicated warship

[Alex]

Thanks for the feedback about +burn hullmods and skills!

- Yeah, having taken a further look at it, I think the DP values for some of the Civilian ships are too high. A Buffalo Mk.1 sure isn't worth 5 DP of frigate. A Tarsus is maybe 4, it sure as heck ain't worth more in a fight than a Lasher.

DP isn't so much as its battlefield worth, its more the burden it places upon the command structure. Ensuring a barely armed civilian craft performs usefully in combat is a lot more work than directing the actions of a well drilled combat crew in a dedicated warship

Well, now that "fleet points" are "deployment points" and are no longer used in the campaign layer, they represent two things: 1) the combat worth of the ship/wing and 2) the impact it has on game performance. In most battles, #1 doesn't actually matter since everything can be deployed at once (although the AI uses the DP cost as a shortcut for figuring out relative fleet strengths, but that can be adjusted somewhat for civilian ships). So, something like an Atlas may richly deserve a purely-combat-rating of 2 DP or so, but can't have it because its performance against the framerate - especially once it takes damage - is much "better".

Obviously, as a player, you shouldn't need to be aware of #2. I'm just explaining why the values are what they are.

[Cosmitz]

Alex, speaking of fleet points, i swear i can't see any indicator anywhere of how much logistics a ship will need. I mean a Shuttle barely even raises my logistics by 1% but takes no 'points' per se.

[Thaago]

When you pull up the info for a ship, look for supplies per day. That is how much logistics they will use (when not repairing).

[Gabriel_Braun]

What about ^10 <s>the 'top-end' value</s> all DP costs and working from there?  I find that the more balanced things become (also from modding POV) the difference between 4DP and 5DP is massive and hurts balancing options where the difference between 40DP and 50DP might allow better computations?

Also Thaago/Cosmitz; logistics shown for which?

The ship, the ship with skeleton crew, the ship with skeleton crew and no supplies or the ship with full supplies and crew? 

[Gothars]

Alex, speaking of fleet points, i swear i can't see any indicator anywhere of how much logistics a ship will need. I mean a Shuttle barely even raises my logistics by 1% but takes no 'points' per se.

Maybe the misunderstanding here is the difference between logistic rating (LR) and logistic capability (LC).

LR is the big %-number in the UI (Pancakes!), it only starts to drop if you exceed your LC. LC is a whole number (20 without skills) and is represented by the blue bar, it's the value that is directly influenced if you buy a new ship. Buying a hound does in most cases not change your LR, but your LC goes up by the hounds daily supply consumption: 1 (so, 5% of your base LC).

[Gabriel_Braun]

^^ Gothars doing it right

[Cosmitz]

Ok, so the hounds daily consumption while at Max CR is the old "Fleet points"? Man i wish that was written better somewhere. If there's one thing i mind about the new CR/LR system, is that it's overwhelming, even for me which played SS blindfolded, and even now that i dug a dozen hours in 0.6 i don't have a clear concise picture in my head.

[Gothars]

Ok, so the hounds daily consumption while at Max CR is the old "Fleet points"? Man i wish that was written better somewhere. If there's one thing i mind about the new CR/LR system, is that it's overwhelming, even for me which played SS blindfolded, and even now that i dug a dozen hours in 0.6 i don't have a clear concise picture in my head.

Yeah, daily supply consumption is roughly equivalent to the old FP. Just, well, very different^^  (And far to hidden, hint-hint)

I'm already busy writing the new manual, hope that will help to clear things up.


Apropos, @ Alex: Will there likely be any changes with Pancakes for 0.62a? I've not written that part yet, don't want to change stuff around too much...

[Histidine]

If there's confusion between LR and LC, perhaps LR could be renamed to Logistics Efficiency (LE), seeing as that's what it is anyway.

[Alex]

Apropos, @ Alex: Will there likely be any changes with Pancakes for 0.62a? I've not written that part yet, don't want to change stuff around too much...

Fairly likely; don't know how extensive yet.

[Magician]

Probably this was already somewhere answered. In v.0.54 if you run compilation of mods after some time (especially if you use load several times) game was prone to crashes and stutter/lag. In v.0.6+ mostly thanks to hyperspace system load increased even more. Eventually game will be expanded even more with new game systems and content. So my questions is should I expect that it will take considerably more powerfull PC to run Starsector, especially with such compilations as Exelerin's and Uomoz's, or it was all planned and as game expands optimization will improve and in the end It will require same PC as older versions?