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Author Topic: Combat Readyness isn't fun..  (Read 151232 times)

Sproginator

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #330 on: September 25, 2013, 12:28:58 AM »

Sorry, my post was directed to some comments made about two pages back, how on earth did I miss two pages lol
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Cycerin

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #331 on: September 25, 2013, 03:22:39 AM »

I think the version of .6 I downloaded must be broken, because my main character flies around with a fleet composed entirely of high tech frigates and I accumulate probably 7 or 8 times more supplies than I use, while according to many in this thread I should be broke and drifting around the system in a bunch of CR depleted ships.

Pretty much every fleet composition I've tried has raked in absurd amounts of supplies. All fighters and carriers, a balanced mix of mid tech ships, and a fleet of low tech destroyers and cruisers with an Onslaught flagship fleet. With each of these, I can deploy the whole fleet in every engagement and still come out way ahead. My main criticism of the CR system is that it hasn't really forced me to change my playstyle at all from .54a, and if anything has made the game easier with money coming in way too fast.

What am I doing so right that so many of you aren't? My only real strategy is going after the biggest fleets I can catch and destroy without losing ships. That's it. Works every time in iron mode even.

Seems like you *ghasp* might be good at the game.
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Fireball14

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #332 on: September 25, 2013, 04:09:13 AM »

hmm...i wonder why there are no comments to my post?  ???
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 04:21:55 AM by Fireball14 »
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Histidine

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #333 on: September 25, 2013, 04:22:58 AM »

In light of the various mentions of CR supply usage, one thing that needs to be emphasized: with the possible exception of capital ships, CR recovery is very, very cheap compared to repairs. For combat vessels, full repair (from 0% hull and armor) costs are almost always at least 10x deployment costs (lowest is 7.46x for the Paragon), averaging 18.75x and going up to 60x for the Hound.

In practice, full repair essentially never happens, so halving those figures is probably more accurate. Nevertheless, it's still pretty much impossible not to make a profit supply-wise if your ships aren't getting beaten up on a regular basis. If you're not profiting and aren't in the death spiral, blame repair costs, not CR.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 04:31:50 AM by Histidine »
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Dr.Noid

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #334 on: September 25, 2013, 04:57:16 AM »

hmm...i wonder why there are no comments to my post?  ???
No offence, but probably because it is rather long and your English does make it hard to read.

Lets go over it.
O1.1: There is no tutorial yet. This is not an issue with CR.

O1.2: Are you talking about CR costing supplies or repairs costing replies? It seems your are talking about repairs because you say:
Quote from: Fireball14
Gets some money, but because of not perfect play style he gets more CR damage

Your play style or how good you are in battle has no influence on CR. (Unless flying a frigate and taking a long time to fight)
Furthermore, recovering CR doesn't take that much supplies. Repairs however do, but that has nothing to do with CR.

So to me it seems like 1.2 is about repairs costing too much supplies, not CR.

O2: Harry being broken has already been confirmed by Alex and is being worked on.

O3: Big ships are slow... That's not broken, that's the way it is intended to be. Speeds used to work on a gliding scale, but that made or loooooong and boring chases. The current system works better, since it's directly obvious whether you have any chance of catching that other fleet or not.
Also, big ships are supposed to be super-rare in the future and since there is nothing to defend/attack yet they don't really have a role in the current alpha campain.

Last: Supply cost. There is no economy yet, will be balanced in the future.

It's probably better to split different topics into different posts.
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xenoargh

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #335 on: September 25, 2013, 07:35:22 AM »

Thank you, Dr. Noid, for aptly summarizing what I'd have said if I had the time today :)
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Fireball14

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #336 on: September 25, 2013, 08:02:41 AM »

hmm...i wonder why there are no comments to my post?  ???
No offence, but probably because it is rather long and your English does make it hard to read.

Lets go over it.
O1.1: There is no tutorial yet. This is not an issue with CR.

O1.2: Are you talking about CR costing supplies or repairs costing replies? It seems your are talking about repairs because you say:
Quote from: Fireball14
Gets some money, but because of not perfect play style he gets more CR damage

Your play style or how good you are in battle has no influence on CR. (Unless flying a frigate and taking a long time to fight)
Furthermore, recovering CR doesn't take that much supplies. Repairs however do, but that has nothing to do with CR.

So to me it seems like 1.2 is about repairs costing too much supplies, not CR.

O2: Harry being broken has already been confirmed by Alex and is being worked on.

O3: Big ships are slow... That's not broken, that's the way it is intended to be. Speeds used to work on a gliding scale, but that made or loooooong and boring chases. The current system works better, since it's directly obvious whether you have any chance of catching that other fleet or not.
Also, big ships are supposed to be super-rare in the future and since there is nothing to defend/attack yet they don't really have a role in the current alpha campain.

Last: Supply cost. There is no economy yet, will be balanced in the future.

It's probably better to split different topics into different posts.
Sorry for my english. It's not my native language.  :(


As for O1.2 i was talking about CR. As those who support CR have stated, that i need to use as smaller force as possible to win a battle, but if i like to play steamroller style i have no chance to supply my ships. Becos battles divided into few skirmishes rather than all out wall on wall type. So basically game supports only one play style - Swarmer fleets. Its not bad, i just think game can support more play styles, as it did in .5x version.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 08:05:10 AM by Fireball14 »
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Gabrybbo

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #337 on: September 25, 2013, 09:09:51 AM »

As for O1.2 i was talking about CR. As those who support CR have stated, that i need to use as smaller force as possible to win a battle, but if i like to play steamroller style i have no chance to supply my ships. Becos battles divided into few skirmishes rather than all out wall on wall type. So basically game supports only one play style - Swarmer fleets. Its not bad, i just think game can support more play styles, as it did in .5x version.

I think it is this way because we lack the mechanics that allow you to keep an inefficient fleet supplied, like friendly supply fleets, facilities and stuff like that.
Once those things get slowly implemented, you'll be able to play however you like after you put some time and dedication into it. And the cries of desperation of your enemies are so going to be worth the efforts to build and protect a strong logistic chain around the Sector to keep your 3 Paragons and 5 Hyperions supplied  ;D
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Voyager I

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #338 on: September 25, 2013, 09:48:06 AM »

My highlight for this thread is going to be four-star drama queens quitting the game over a new feature not being adequately tested for their tastes in an alpha.  At least, that's what I got second-hand, since apparently it's not worth their time to condense the 40-minute video they expect us to watch.
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xenoargh

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #339 on: September 25, 2013, 11:23:42 AM »

Hey Alex... if you get by to read this, just wanted to say one thing.

I don't think the idea of Capitals being "very rare" is likely to work well, at least not how they're balanced atm.

A.  Right now, I can kill most Capitals with two Frigates and a Destroyer.  If the AI "very rarely" has ships that size, I don't see how it's going to be much of a challenge.

B.  If players ever get a Capital (ship, not that other thing) they're going to become well-nigh unstoppable.

Instead of tinkering with the current Capital balance much, though... perhaps another type should be introduced, that can serve in that "Boss" role, is far more challenging, that cannot be captured and never gets sold?  Just a thought.
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #340 on: September 25, 2013, 11:54:23 AM »

Quote
Instead of tinkering with the current Capital balance much, though... perhaps another type should be introduced, that can serve in that "Boss" role, is far more challenging, that cannot be captured and never gets sold?  Just a thought.

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Dr.Noid

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #341 on: September 25, 2013, 12:26:17 PM »

Sorry for my english. It's not my native language.  :(
That's fine, it'll just take more posts to get your point across clearly :)

As for O1.2 i was talking about CR. As those who support CR have stated, that i need to use as smaller force as possible to win a battle, but if i like to play steamroller style i have no chance to supply my ships. Becos battles divided into few skirmishes rather than all out wall on wall type. So basically game supports only one play style - Swarmer fleets. Its not bad, i just think game can support more play styles, as it did in .5x version.

Supplying your ships has very little to do with CR.
Most ships should also be fine in several battles in a multi-battle engagement. Of course you should make sure your ships have enough CR before starting a new engagement...
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Fireball14

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #342 on: September 25, 2013, 12:39:17 PM »

Supplying your ships has very little to do with CR.
Most ships should also be fine in several battles in a multi-battle engagement. Of course you should make sure your ships have enough CR before starting a new engagement...
Yeh but if my big ship will get some battle damage and i don't really have a good supply of money, i most likely end up in gameover loop.  :(

Well i'm gonna wait and see what will Alex do in next couple of updates. I’m not sure he can fix it in one update properly.
Still, imho removing supply cost for CR regeneration will make things much better.
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mendonca

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #343 on: September 25, 2013, 12:53:26 PM »

If you have a huge ship that you can not sustain - downsize.

Sell the ship, mothball it, scuttle it for supplies ... Tough decision but perfectly reasonable in my eyes :)
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Fireball14

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Re: Combat Readyness isn't fun..
« Reply #344 on: September 25, 2013, 01:32:16 PM »

If you have a huge ship that you can not sustain - downsize.

Sell the ship, mothball it, scuttle it for supplies ... Tough decision but perfectly reasonable in my eyes :)
I agree, it would be smart move but totally not fun. Its not fun getting killed not in battle, but rather by game rules. :-\
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