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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Painting the Stars (02/07/20); Updated the Forum Rules and Guidelines (02/29/20)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Kadur Remnant 3.1.2 - un-invincible 2020-02-11  (Read 278943 times)

FreedomFighter

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Just pitching in, Varya, I like the way you implement third-party colonization even it pretty minimal, it makes the sector feel more alive. And the fact that they all in the fringe just make my exploration mission easier due to access to fuel and supplies. And one last evil part, if they happen to set up in a nice place, it will become my place  :D
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Vayra

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For the record, the frequency may not be quite as bad as I originally thought - I just went through most of cycle 210 without any new expeditions until the Warhawks finally launched one in December. Previously, I must have just had multiple successful rolls on the lower end of that 30-60 day range so the factions managed to get several expeditions going simultaneously. (At least one of the expeditions was 100+ days long, so the RNG could have theoretically made three other success rolls while it was active.)

And, as if to highlight the flaws with my partial survey suggestion, the Warhawks targeted a REDACTED system where I didn't manage to fully survey all the planets because I, umm, "strategically retreated." Regardless, adding a "red planet" check and some distance weighting should address most of my concerns anyway. The only other problem I could foresee would be colonization of special planets/systems from other mods. The survey idea was also my attempt at creating a generic check that would prevent (or at least limit) expeditions to systems like those overrun/claimed by mod factions (like the Blade Breakers, the Sanguinary Anarchistic Defectors, or the IXth Battlegroups for example). Oh well, back to the drawing board on that one.

The sanity checks you've proposed sound great - that should take care of any other oddities I experienced with the expeditions. I can't explain the "population" check failing though - I colonized the planet several weeks before the expedition arrived in the hopes of completing the patrol HQ to get help defending the planet. Of course, it never produced any patrols in the brief time between its completion and their arrival, but it seemed like a good idea at the time...


They do also have a cap at <player colonies> + 1 per faction (though existing expeditions will finish, which can put them over the cap), so it's possible that they eventually hit it, heh. Anyway this is definitely on my list to take a look at -- maybe I'll make them less random (i.e. more likely to happen when the conditions are met) but on a longer timeout and limit each faction to 1 active expedition at a time.

Also, I just found a bug in the way I was checking for beacons on targets, heh. Turns out Alex gives the beacon level tag to the BEACON, not to the SYSTEM. I'm gonna move to a whitelist instead of a blacklist for colonizable system types, so that should work better in the future. I think I've got a better population check in the final stage now too. We can hope, anyway. :P

Just pitching in, Varya, I like the way you implement third-party colonization even it pretty minimal, it makes the sector feel more alive. And the fact that they all in the fringe just make my exploration mission easier due to access to fuel and supplies. And one last evil part, if they happen to set up in a nice place, it will become my place  :D

Thanks! Glad you're enjoying it -- these are gonna get a lot more "alive" in the next update!
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Kadur Remnant: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6649
Vayra's Sector: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16058
Vayra's Ship Pack: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16059

im gonna push jangala into the sun i swear to god im gonna do it

Vayra

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Fun bug: Infinite Luddic Path cells in intel menu (probably pirate raider and Kadur crusader activity, too) when the faction in question controls no non-hidden markets. No actual in-game effect beyond a little spam and the cells/raider activity not going away like it's meant to.

The raider base reaper was killing the base manager script, which was meant to prevent further bases from spawning while still letting cells "run their course". Of course, the manager script looks like it's also the script that removes stuff when it's finished...

Anyway, it's not a Nexerelin issue (figured this would be worth bolding since people seemed to assume that) and will be either fixed or the feature removed in the next Kadur release. In the meantime, it can be avoided on new saves by turning the "stopSpawningRaiderBasesWhenFactionDelet" option off in KADUR_SETTINGS.ini.
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Kadur Remnant: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6649
Vayra's Sector: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16058
Vayra's Ship Pack: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16059

im gonna push jangala into the sun i swear to god im gonna do it

StahnAileron

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Fun bug: Infinite Luddic Path cells in intel menu (probably pirate raider and Kadur crusader activity, too) when the faction in question controls no non-hidden markets. No actual in-game effect beyond a little spam and the cells/raider activity not going away like it's meant to.

The raider base reaper was killing the base manager script, which was meant to prevent further bases from spawning while still letting cells "run their course". Of course, the manager script looks like it's also the script that removes stuff when it's finished...

Anyway, it's not a Nexerelin issue (figured this would be worth bolding since people seemed to assume that) and will be either fixed or the feature removed in the next Kadur release. In the meantime, it can be avoided on new saves by turning the "stopSpawningRaiderBasesWhenFactionDelet" option off in KADUR_SETTINGS.ini.

Any advice on how to clear it out in affected saves? (Seems to just be the intel log not clearing out properly. Though I still get new Pather bases spawning, I think...) Also, I forgot I eliminated the Pathers from my current game; that actually was about when this started happening, now that I think about it.
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Vayra

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Yeah, it'll only happen when you eliminate all their (regular, non-hidden) markets -- it will prevent it from spawning any more bases until and unless they get another market (as designed), but unfortunately it also prevents the script from cleaning them up.  :-\

As for a fix for existing saves, hmm. Giving them a market (either with Nexerelin or Console Commands) should(?) allow the intel to get cleaned up but it'll also allow them to spawn more bases. I think that might be the best I got. Fortunately it's just spammy, not necessarily gamebreaking...
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Kadur Remnant: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6649
Vayra's Sector: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16058
Vayra's Ship Pack: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16059

im gonna push jangala into the sun i swear to god im gonna do it

StahnAileron

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Yeah, it'll only happen when you eliminate all their (regular, non-hidden) markets -- it will prevent it from spawning any more bases until and unless they get another market (as designed), but unfortunately it also prevents the script from cleaning them up.  :-\

As for a fix for existing saves, hmm. Giving them a market (either with Nexerelin or Console Commands) should(?) allow the intel to get cleaned up but it'll also allow them to spawn more bases. I think that might be the best I got. Fortunately it's just spammy, not necessarily gamebreaking...
Hmm... You think giving them a market and then immediately eliminating them again (hopefully before the game spawns them some bases) would work?
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Grizzlyadamz

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This Badger is almost scratching an itch but it can't quite reach- mostly because of 2 things: First, the speed/agility of a capital ship might keep it out of trouble in a line, but if it's being used as an anchor in a small fleet (it's so close to being ideal for this) any frigates assigned to escort duty are unable to capitalize on strike opportunities- even incapped enemies tend to float faster than this guy moves (or aims). Something like a Mule (P) doesn't have this problem & can form a little wolfpack with its escorts. Second, it lacks the flux capacity to make use of those two beautiful medium mining mounts. I'd be fine with a hullmod that handicapped max-flux-dissipation & a narrower shield arc if it meant the Badger could actually let off a double-shot or two from some of these super-flux-heavy mining modules that're always laying around. If the shield gets "too" tanky you could just double the damage coefficient & it'll be back to normal. Hmm, though other weapons would still benefit just the same and could be imba..not sure how to ensure they wouldn't be.

Also holy cow militarized subsystems pushes crew req to 160. I mean scav/survey fleets are going to be stacking crew anyway & the wages aren't a real concern but it feels excessive, especially for a drone-boat.

What's the (P) version like? And what kind of fleet lets the default shine?

I really like the concept & the aesthetics btw, three wings of mining drones + medium mounts + the low top speed can let it live up to the name (especially with a couple of shepherds throwing their borers into the mix lol)

-edit
I'm literally pushing my test copy out of a bad station-assault so that it can keep up with the fuel tankers & collossi  ;D
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[close]
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 11:19:05 PM by Grizzlyadamz »
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Vayra

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This Badger is almost scratching an itch but it can't quite reach- mostly because of 2 things: First, the speed/agility of a capital ship might keep it out of trouble in a line, but if it's being used as an anchor in a small fleet (it's so close to being ideal for this) any frigates assigned to escort duty are unable to capitalize on strike opportunities- even incapped enemies tend to float faster than this guy moves (or aims). Something like a Mule (P) doesn't have this problem & can form a little wolfpack with its escorts. Second, it lacks the flux capacity to make use of those two beautiful medium mining mounts. I'd be fine with a hullmod that handicapped max-flux-dissipation & a narrower shield arc if it meant the Badger could actually let off a double-shot or two from some of these super-flux-heavy mining modules that're always laying around. If the shield gets "too" tanky you could just double the damage coefficient & it'll be back to normal. Hmm, though other weapons would still benefit just the same and could be imba..not sure how to ensure they wouldn't be.

Also holy cow militarized subsystems pushes crew req to 160. I mean scav/survey fleets are going to be stacking crew anyway & the wages aren't a real concern but it feels excessive, especially for a drone-boat.

What's the (P) version like? And what kind of fleet lets the default shine?

I really like the concept & the aesthetics btw, three wings of mining drones + medium mounts + the low top speed can let it live up to the name (especially with a couple of shepherds throwing their borers into the mix lol)

-edit
I'm literally pushing my test copy out of a bad station-assault so that it can keep up with the fuel tankers & collossi  ;D
Spoiler
[close]

I'm pretty happy with it all things considered -- it acts best as an earlygame fleet carrier anchor/scavenging and freight hauling helper. You generally want to treat it as an anchor/anvil like you mention, I think the issue there is you're assigning escorts to it and escort AI is a little broken in 0.9.0. I recommend putting it and any other longish-range anchor ships together on a rally waypoint (or even just letting it roam), and then leading the wolfpack yourself to flank enemies against it. :D That said, I will take another look at it, maybe the crew requirement in particular.

The (P) version is more direct-combat oriented, trading the default mixed-strike-craft drones out for a long-range suicide torpedo drone and a central large mount with targeting drones to boost its range, as well as a little more speed. Of course, it keeps the terrible maneuverability and flux-handling...

EDIT: By the way, I just uploaded a hotfix version if you or anyone else is getting the double ruins bug. Redownload from the OP -- shouldn't break saves.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 04:59:08 PM by Vayra »
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Kadur Remnant: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6649
Vayra's Sector: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16058
Vayra's Ship Pack: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16059

im gonna push jangala into the sun i swear to god im gonna do it

Grizzlyadamz

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[snip]
EDIT: By the way, I just uploaded a hotfix version if you or anyone else is getting the double ruins bug. Redownload from the OP -- shouldn't break saves.
Oh that's where that was coming from lol
Doesn't seem like a major issue- was it breaking the colony for tech mining/usurping traits or something?
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cjuicy

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[snip]
EDIT: By the way, I just uploaded a hotfix version if you or anyone else is getting the double ruins bug. Redownload from the OP -- shouldn't break saves.
Oh that's where that was coming from lol
Doesn't seem like a major issue- was it breaking the colony for tech mining/usurping traits or something?
Not to my knowledge, just misleading and cluttered up the planet survey page
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"Light the Stars with your Incendiary Rounds!"
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ThePollie

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Cool as these ships look, this entire mod feels only worth it for the bonus stuff it applies, because the actual faction is an obnoxiously weak, nicheless mess that is effectively free money whenever I feel like raiding. After playing with them for a while, I genuinely feel like these ships were designed from the ground up to force losses during combat, because they are utterly impossible to sustain in any degree. I can reliably take on fleets of them two or three times my own size, knowing full well they have zero ability to survive anything more frightening than a stiff breeze. The only noteworthy "advantage" I've seen yet is that some of their heavier ships takes years to kill. Which is no real solace, since they spend the entire time flared out, guns disabled, just watching the hull bar drain steadily.

It's hilariously stupid how hard countered they are by just mixing in a few salamanders and watching their entire fleet spend the fight spinning.
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Vayra

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Cool as these ships look, this entire mod feels only worth it for the bonus stuff it applies, because the actual faction is an obnoxiously weak, nicheless mess that is effectively free money whenever I feel like raiding. After playing with them for a while, I genuinely feel like these ships were designed from the ground up to force losses during combat, because they are utterly impossible to sustain in any degree. I can reliably take on fleets of them two or three times my own size, knowing full well they have zero ability to survive anything more frightening than a stiff breeze. The only noteworthy "advantage" I've seen yet is that some of their heavier ships takes years to kill. Which is no real solace, since they spend the entire time flared out, guns disabled, just watching the hull bar drain steadily.

It's hilariously stupid how hard countered they are by just mixing in a few salamanders and watching their entire fleet spend the fight spinning.

Hmm, I think a part of what you might be seeing is the current lack of depth to the faction rather than necessarily the weakness of the individual ships. I do have some additional weapon options and some more ships in the pipe for the next update, including a capital and a more defensive-oriented DD, so I hope those will make them feel like a little less of a pushover. Maybe some less aggressive cruisers would help too...

In any case, I do prefer to set my baseline low and then balance upwards instead of setting it too high and balancing down, so this feedback is much appreciated.  :D
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Kadur Remnant: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6649
Vayra's Sector: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16058
Vayra's Ship Pack: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=16059

im gonna push jangala into the sun i swear to god im gonna do it

ThePollie

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At the start, I tried using the ships heavily.

Right now, I actively don't use them even out of desperation. They are utterly outclassed by -everything- else I could possibly use.

I have taken on Kadur fleets six times my size and, even with a maxed Battlestation assisting them, often obliterate them without even a single ship lost. To say Kadur ships are terrible is beyond an understatement. They're just mid-line ships with infinitely worse shields and zero mobility. Why use them over mid-line ships?
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cjuicy

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Why use them over mid-line ships?
Because they are fun  :P.

In all seriousness, the tooltip for the hullmod explains how they should be used. Crush what you can, run what you can't, and don't get caught doing it. They make really good pirate run ships.
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"Light the Stars with your Incendiary Rounds!"
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Harmful Mechanic

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I can't wait for this kid to figure out modding. He's going to be on the receiving end with the rest of us soon enough if he does.
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