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Author Topic: Audio Review - 0.6a  (Read 15787 times)

Cycerin

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Audio Review - 0.6a
« on: September 14, 2013, 04:10:21 AM »

Great patch. I want to talk about the audio, since it's sort of my field of specialization, and the focus of a large amount of the work that went into this patch. :)

Overall, I think the game is a lot more immersive now. I really love it. It's more subdued and minimal when it comes to the ships themselves, but the impact sounds create an amazing ambience and make it VERY satisfying to get through a ship's shields and start causing system damage. The fact that the attention is on the sound of damage being caused rather than weapons going off, makes the battles more visceral. The shields also sound amazing.

Seriously, the new "weapon disabled" sounds are so goddamn satisfying. It's amazing.

I also like the warning sounds from CR loss and other important battle events.

I have a few things I miss from the previous direction, though:

- Some audio cues now much subtler
This is mainly the flux venting noise. Sometimes, earlier, you'd hear a ship venting just off screen and nail it with some Harpoons just in time. It's a lot subtler now and easily drowns in the sound of explosions. It's also such an iconic part of the game, and it deserves attention from the player. It should be a bit more prominent, if you ask me.

- Engine sounds are extremely quiet
For cruisers and up. Not everyone is playing with a subwoofer. I am, though, so I really feel it when there's an Onslaught on screen... but still, the engine sounds are overall very subtle now and have a tad less character from ship to ship. I'd like to see them given a tiny bit more prominence, I think we could stand to hear them a bit better. Especially the large ships, you won't notice them at all if you play with crummy headphones/on laptop speakers.

- Some sounds are inexplicably subtle/conservative given what weapon they represent.
The Mjolnir Cannon and TPC sound really dinky. They don't have much variation in-between sounds either. I feel like these weapons don't feel satisfying to use as a result, especially when the Gauss Cannon, Hellbore etc. are so awesome in comparison.

- Certain older sounds feel conspiciously out of place
Burn Drive. Accelerated Ammo Feeder. Maneuvering Jets.
The engine sounds are so subdued and low-passed right now. When ships enter a battle at maximum burn, it feels somewhat wrong to hear that whine. I still like it on the Onslaught, though.
Also, unrelated, how awesome would it be if ships had reverse engine flares when they brake from maximum burn? With a small "CFFFFFFFHHHH" noise? Hell yes.

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hadesian

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2013, 04:13:31 AM »

- Some audio cues now much subtler
This is mainly the flux venting noise. Sometimes, earlier, you'd hear a ship venting just off screen and nail it with some Harpoons just in time. It's a lot subtler now and easily drowns in the sound of explosions. It's also such an iconic part of the game, and it deserves attention from the player. It should be a bit more prominent, if you ask me.

- Engine sounds are extremely quiet
For cruisers and up. Not everyone is playing with a subwoofer. I am, though, so I really feel it when there's an Onslaught on screen... but still, the engine sounds are overall very subtle now and have a tad less character from ship to ship. I'd like to see them given a tiny bit more prominence, I think we could stand to hear them a bit better. Especially the large ships, you won't notice them at all if you play with crummy headphones/on laptop speakers.

- Some sounds are inexplicably subtle/conservative given what weapon they represent.
The Mjolnir Cannon and TPC sound really dinky. They don't have much variation in-between sounds either. I feel like these weapons don't feel satisfying to use as a result, especially when the Gauss Cannon, Hellbore etc. are so awesome in comparison.
Really sound. Stuff like the antimatter blaster sound really weak now, engine sounds sound great to me and bigger ships are lovely and bassy but I have reference grade headphones. I never used the sound of venting as a method to find people though.
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Cycerin

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2013, 04:22:46 AM »

I have a Creative subwoofer + speakers and a pair of Yamaha HS50M monitors hooked up to my sound card that I can swap between as A/B, and it's really hard to hear big ships on my Yamahas unless I play with ridiculous volume... it's great with the sub, though.
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StianStark

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2013, 04:46:30 AM »

Thanks for the well written feedback, Cycerin! You raise some very good points.

Let me be the first to admit right off the bat that there is still going to be a lot of work that will go specifically into making sounds work better together and fixing stray, older sounds that don't exactly "fit" right now.

When I started with designing sounds I thought that making them was going to be the biggest hurdle. Maybe it was, but the balancing act of getting a pool of 200+ combat sounds to work together is not a walk in the park either. :) It's definitely a slow process and one where I have seriously needed the help of Alex because my ears have gotten very "sharp" in hearing sounds I've created myself. What I mean by this is, that for me it's incredibly easy to pick out sounds from a huge mess of sound because I've listened to the elements of that mess hundreds/thousands of times, which is something that no player has done. So Alex has been a huge help with noticing balance issues because his ears are good and proper and mine are spoiled to the core at this point.

So in short: The next non-hotfix update to 0.6a will still have a lot of sound fixes in it. Engines and mjolnir are on the list along with a lot of other stuff, like ammo feeder and some system sounds.

But keep the feedback rollin', I read everything although I don't usually have time to reply to all posts.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 04:52:28 AM by StianStark »
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FloW

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2013, 04:51:39 AM »

I actually don't like the new radar "blip" sounds. They used to scream "STUFF'S HAPPENING, WATCH OUT". Now they seem like "There's something. If you have time, just check it out."

There was a discussion about the blips being too loud, but I feel like this is too extreme. I'd rather be overwhelmed by radar pings than a bombing run I've never seen coming.
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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2013, 04:54:39 AM »

I agree. I found the old blips never too loud and really miss them now.

(Edit: Missile blips)
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 05:10:30 AM by Gotcha! »
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StianStark

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2013, 05:00:02 AM »

I actually don't like the new radar "blip" sounds. They used to scream "STUFF'S HAPPENING, WATCH OUT". Now they seem like "There's something. If you have time, just check it out."

There was a discussion about the blips being too loud, but I feel like this is too extreme. I'd rather be overwhelmed by radar pings than a bombing run I've never seen coming.

Do you mean the 'ping' of a new ship on radar or the 'tick' of missiles on radar? The missile sound is designed to be non-intrusive but something that will cut through bigger battles, so you will always be able to hear it. Even though it isn't a big sound I think players will learn to be scared when they suddenly hear a burst of "tiktiktiktiktiktiktiktiktitktktkttktk".

The problem with missile sounds is, that if it's a bigger sound - like the old one - you create a totally false feeling for times when a few missiles fired at you are a total non-issue that causes you to raise shields for a few seconds at most. I feel like the current sound is neutral enough to work for both non-scary missiles and "oh *** oh *** oh *** I'm gonna get hit!".

EDIT: It is also possible that this is just a volume issue. Will look into it.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 05:10:02 AM by StianStark »
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cell

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2013, 05:47:34 AM »

theres definitely some cool new sounds. however i feel like for every sound that got improved something else got much worse. the onslaughts thermal pulse cannons really stand out. the old sound was infinitely better in my opinion. it used to sound terrifying, like it should.

however i do like a lot of the new "impact" sounds when projectiles / missiles hit something. at least messing around at lvl 1 with high explosive guns it sounds pretty awesome. the new gauss weapon sounds are a nice improvement also.
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neonesis

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2013, 05:57:01 AM »

I agree. I found the old blips never too loud and really miss them now.

(Edit: Missile blips)
I agree - in 0.6a I have been already caught off guard by so many missiles, while in earlier versions this basically never happened.
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Gothars

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2013, 06:43:23 AM »

First I have to say the the sound update is great, It really boosts atmosphere and feels overall much meatier. So, obviously since this the case, most of the individual sounds are somewhere between good and superb. I love the Thumper! And absolutely all beam weapons are great!


I will just list the ones I don't like here as I encounter them.


Swarmer Missile release: Much too loud for their limited relevance.

Autopulse Laser: Disappointing. Sounds like a light or medium ballistic weapon. For the other pulse lasers you decided to go with a bit of pew-pew, which I think is appropriate for their character. Would fit here, too.

Plasma Cannon: Better than it seemed in the video, but still far too weak. It's the most powerful energy weapon! The concept could work I think, just needs much more bass.

Gauss Cannon: Needs a charge sound , otherwise perfect.

Mining Laser: Is probably a bit too loud for its low power.

Light machine guns: I just can't help it, I'm thinking of a crank being turned whenever I hear them!



Another thing: Are you and Alex aware that the sound engine sometimes swallows sounds? For example, sometimes when I destroy a venting ship, the venting sound goes on but the destruction sound is not played. I already noticed that in the last release and thought it would be fixed with the sound update.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 08:49:10 AM by Gothars »
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xenoargh

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2013, 08:13:39 AM »

Quote
EDIT: It is also possible that this is just a volume issue. Will look into it.
That's the impression I got; both the ship-on-radar sound and the missiles-inbound sound went so quiet that I had to listen for them. 

The main issue with the missile sounds wasn't their sound, anyhow- it was how the engine was handling them, in terms of frequency, so that we didn't get PINGPINGPINGPINGPINGPING...
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BillyRueben

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2013, 08:33:17 AM »

I'd give it a few days before making the call to change the missile "ping". I like the new sound, but it took a little time to adjust to it. Making the sound a little louder probably wouldn't hurt though.

I've only been able to play with the low-tech ships, but I LOVE the new ballistic sounds.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 08:35:07 AM by BillyRueben »
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Darloth

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2013, 11:50:39 AM »

Is it possible to have the missile sounds modulated in some way by how dangerous the missile is?  The most obvious two things that occur to me would be playing the sound louder for a bigger (damage rating) missile, and playing the sound slightly differently (in pitch? I can't tell how useful that would be with the current tik sound) if the missile is targetting your ship at launch or not.

I quite liked the sensor ping, but I agree it was rather overblown for the amount of times it happened in any common battle - I ended up just ignoring it, mostly.
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Silver Silence

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2013, 11:59:33 AM »


- Some sounds are inexplicably subtle/conservative given what weapon they represent.
The Mjolnir Cannon and TPC sound really dinky. They don't have much variation in-between sounds either. I feel like these weapons don't feel satisfying to use as a result, especially when the Gauss Cannon, Hellbore etc. are so awesome in comparison.

The Pulse Laser now is more of a "pap" sound. "pap, pap, pap, pap, pap, pap"
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Psiyon

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Re: Audio Review - 0.6a
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2013, 01:18:48 PM »

Copy/paste from the thread I created in suggestions, because Gothars told me to do it:


Disclaimer: Stian, for the most part, the new sounds are very good. However, with the weapons, I feel a lot of them come up short. This is, of course, only my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

-Heavy Blaster: Too high-pitched. Really needs some more meat behind the shot.

-Assault Chaingun: Again, sounds too high-pitched, and doesn't seem to have any force behind it.

-Mauler: This sounds like something that belongs in an 8-bit arcade game. It doesn't even sound like a projectile is being fired. The sound for this one is so out of place that it actually discourages me from equipping the weapon to my ships.

-Mjolnir Cannon: Like the first few above, its pitch seems to high, and it doesn't feel like it's shooting a menacing projectile.

-Burst PD lasers (light and heavy): I strongly preferred the old sound over the new one. The old sounds felt like it was squeezing out a satisfyingly high-voltage beam, while the new ones are just an uninteresting click/snap sound.

-Needlers: They just sound like a little snap, and feel absolutely nonthreatening. To be fair, the previous sound was probably worse, in my opinion.

-Pulse lasers / IR Pulse Lasers: Really need some more "oomph" behind them. They sound completely nonthreatening and sort of cheesy, especially the normal pulse laser.

-Thumper: This one made me so sad. In the trailer, the Thumper had such a great new sound. Now it... I don't even know. It doesn't deserve the name "Thumper", that's for sure. Maybe "Pea-shooter".

-Autopulse Laser: Again, just seems like a generic snap/click sound. The old sound might have just been the generic energy weapon sound, but at least it had a good feeling of force when it shot out a huge volley.

-Plasma cannon: This one isn't that bad, but I think it could use some more strength in the lower frequencies.


I think that most of these sound would benefit from this approach: Assume that every projectile weapon is being propelled by an explosion.

And in real-life, they usually are. A bullet being fired from a gun is just being propelled by an explosion down the barrel. It's that feeling of pressure--that explosion of rapidly expanding gasses--that I think a lot of these sounds need.

Additionally, the sound of some of the gun's mechanical interior would be nice to hear--it gives the weapon some personality, rather than just a basic firing sound.

To get an idea of what I mean, take a listen to Far Cry 3's weapon sounds:



Now that I've criticized all those, let me tell you what I think of everything else:

The new explosion and impact sounds are absolutely amazing. It's unbelievably satisfying to cause damage to other ships now, and hearing those perfect "bangs" and creaks when a ship is destroyed is just great. If you can get some of the excellence of your explosion effects into your weapon sounds, it would be amazing.

I love the Hellbore, Gauss Cannon, and Hypervelocity Driver sounds. Really gives them a feeling of force when, for the latter two, you hear that loud "WHIP". Makes me think of a bullet screaming through the air. And the Hellbore's sound does the weapon's name justice: it sounds like a fiery projectile is being shot straight out of hell.

Most of the beams weapons have really nice loop sounds. I sort of miss the fire sounds for them though (IE, the laser goes PEW once you click, and then the beam sound loops). I'd like to see those return in some fashion in the future.

The missile sounds are pretty good as well. I really love the salamander heat-seekers.

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