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Total Members Voted: 34

[miro]

I like Gothars' idea of suddenly tripling damage while over 95% flux. That would add an interesting risk/reward system, and I'm always up for more tactical depth.

[Mattk50]

There's no reason to remove it. It works fine and is a good piece of flavor. If you argue "too complex" you are wrong, simply because complexity on its own is not negative. Maybe if it was confusing new players, however you have to be pretty brain dead to be a new player and not see the big energy weapons damage bonus line, thats what it's there for.

I kinda miss the flux generation button, a kiting apogee with ITU could raise flux to max and then unleash autopulse from a good distance with a good bonus. The mechanic in general has plenty of uses.

[Lucax]

If you argue "too complex" you are wrong, simply because complexity on its own is not negative.

Removing the buff outright is definitely not a good idea, though we could replace it with something more meaningful. Something you have control over in combat.

The buff is here just because energy weapons would be weak otherwise, and is only applied if flux dissipation is less than flux generation. Doesn't sound complex at all...

[Modest]

Like I said before - I do not want this mechanic to go away. And it stays that way still. But Lucax, you said now something interesting - not removing, but repleacing with another interesting mechanic. That would work for me, providing that it would be mechanic that is:

1. Universal for all energy based weapons, and not just second build in system for all hi-tec ships
2. Is not passive damage bonus - that would be just boring
3. Forcing You to make some choise - so it will be NOT no-brainer wheter to use it or not, there must be some disadvantage related to it (currently - high flux means more damage but more risk)
4. Not activated by simply "push the button", but by some other means - currently to use dmg bonus you must first raise your flux

[Alfalfa]

Instead of this mechanic... have something like a Charge bar mechanic, where Venting charges up the bar.
Then there is a positive side to Venting for High Tech ships

Uh...venting is already a very positive thing, it means you have no flux and can use your shields and weapons freely. There's really no reason to give even more initiative for venting.

The good thing about the current mechanic is that it does just the opposite, give reason not to vent. That should be kept in some form.
 I think an interesting mechanic is one that forces you to decide between two seemingly equal alternatives, not one that makes the best choice obvious.

What about having the Charge Bar be filled by venting passively?  It could deplete slowly over time, and you'd get a damage bonus until you vented, or perhaps every shot would partially deplete it.

[TJJ]

While it rarely impacts directly upon my tactical decisions, it does create a subtle & interesting power curve; that being energy-based ships become more powerful the longer an engagement continues.

[Lucax]

1. Universal for all energy based weapons, and not just second build in system for all hi-tec ships

Of course. High tech ships were mentioned because they tend to have more energy weapons than the others.

4. Not activated by simply "push the button", but by some other means - currently to use dmg bonus you must first raise your flux

Interesting point. Left clicking is pushing a button. And actually it's worse than that, because you can just spam fire on nothing to get the bonus, and it looks silly. I'm okay with that, because I rarely find the bonus worthwhile, however I'm sorry, but the current mechanic doesn't even fit this point.

The second point is also arguable, to me it feels like a passive bonus in all situations but the beginning of a battle. Afterwards it's either:
-~50% flux, dps * 1.5
-~100% flux, damage * 2 and rate of fire * ~0.7 so dps * ~1.5

If you have a lot of flux vents the rate of fire at 100% increases but it takes longer for you to reach it.

So on average over the course of a battle you get a 33% bonus to dps approximately. Yup, if you want to compare energy and ballistic weapons a bit more accurately, multiply energy weapons' damage by 1.33.

The 100% flux situation isn't even worthwhile, 50% damage bonus for downed shields or very high risk of overload, not worthwhile. At best it just makes you a little bit more dangerous when you're vulnerable and can't vent.

So that brings me to your third point... No, attacking at high flux is not a choice, it's either something you do either because you're vulnerable or the ship you're shooting is vulnerable, otherwise you might want to keep your shields...

So to keep the same mechanic and make it more meaningful you'd have to make the bonus tiered like some people here suggested, but it would make damage bounce unpredictably between high and low values. It's possible to change AI to make it focus fire on ships with high flux, as for us humans, we can't monitor all of the opposing ships flux bars, nor the damage the different ships do. And I'm not a AI expert, but I don't think it would be easy to make it think about risks of shooting with high flux...

I'd like to add something on top of all this. I think flux is meant to be bad. It prevents you from firing, using shields, and it's intended. It's pretty cool that there is something that differentiates energy from ballistics, so I understand this mechanic has a reason to be. But having the least possible flux is best for most situations, so suddenly making it something of interest sounds wrong to me. The current system is fine but I'm sure it could be better.

[Modest]

1. Universal for all energy based weapons, and not just second build in system for all hi-tec ships

Of course. High tech ships were mentioned because they tend to have more energy weapons than the others.

Glad to hear that

4. Not activated by simply "push the button", but by some other means - currently to use dmg bonus you must first raise your flux

Interesting point. Left clicking is pushing a button. And actually it's worse than that, because you can just spam fire on nothing to get the bonus, and it looks silly. I'm okay with that, because I rarely find the bonus worthwhile, however I'm sorry, but the current mechanic doesn't even fit this point.

Lucax, why did You called that point interesting? Hmm?

Ok, to tell the truth I never ever though of such thing (shooting in empty space to get flux dmg bonus) and I was very unprecise in explanation. My bad - I am sorry. To be more precise now...

Flux raises slowly (well, not always, but let's agree it does) so it makes my damage bonus also raise slowly. I can not just push a button and get peak bonus from it at once. I can't also loose this bonus at once by simply pushing a button again, as flux do not go back to zero in instant (unles I will decide to activate venting my ship - it lock down weapons afther all). Soo... Going with my argument (which was poorly explained first time - I must admint) if player would get a button wihich would rise dmg. for energy weapons by 50% and could do it at once to grab all 50% - that is made just by "pushing a button". When situation is the same, with exeption that bonus slowly rises from 0% to 50% - that is not done just by "pushing a button", despite the fact that all I (as a player) need to do in order to activate it is push a button (litelary). I hope that now I am better understood in this point.

Question - than why did I used "push a button" as a description at all? It is easy to see now how unfortunate and confusing it was.  Answer - I was absolutly sure that it is an English idiom that describes situation which is made too simple to be interesting at all. Obviously I was wrong and my words were understanded litelary, when they weren't ment to be. Kind of funny.

The second point is also arguable, to me it feels like a passive bonus in all situations but the beginning of a battle. Afterwards it's either:
-~50% flux, dps * 1.5
-~100% flux, damage * 2 and rate of fire * ~0.7 so dps * ~1.5

If you have a lot of flux vents the rate of fire at 100% increases but it takes longer for you to reach it.

So on average over the course of a battle you get a 33% bonus to dps approximately. Yup, if you want to compare energy and ballistic weapons a bit more accurately, multiply energy weapons' damage by 1.33.

The 100% flux situation isn't even worthwhile, 50% damage bonus for downed shields or very high risk of overload, not worthwhile. At best it just makes you a little bit more dangerous when you're vulnerable and can't vent.

You are right in showing that if I am fighting and using energy weapons I will get all the time bonus to damage, because I will rise my flux in proces. You also are saying that this bonus is most of time around 33% (because of rate of fire geting lower on high flux). I believe You and math that You did provided without checking it - it looks solid and true. But my point is that at beginig of fighting, my first shoots are without any bonus dmg, my next shoots get's a bit stronger, and next again stronger, and so, and so... Until I hit flux limits and my rate of fire goes down. It is that fact that bonus do not stay in the same place all the time, but changes during combat what make it not as a passive bonus for me. It is best observed when fighting using beam weapons. Passive it would be only if insted of this mechanic we would get general increase to energy weapons damage.

No, attacking at high flux is not a choice, it's either something you do either because you're vulnerable or the ship you're shooting is vulnerable, otherwise you might want to keep your shields...

Disagree... Not completly of course - again I do see a reason. Yes, cases which You are describing are not much of a choise - I agree totally. Point is, I do not agree that those are only situations in which I would attack while having high flux. There are fast ships that can choose when to pick up a fight, when tu run away and when outmanuver enemy (Tempest, Hyperion for example). So in those cases You can choose to attack enemy from back, or when he is occupied with fighting another ship hoping that he will not target your ship. You might say that in this situation I am attacking only because my enemy is vulnerable - but that is only partly true, as my enemy in most cases may choose to target me insted, and with high flux I am risking. I agree that in almost all cases it is "high risk - low reward" system, but it is a choise, and many times I am taking that risk - low reward is better than no reward. In few cases it was big mistake, but in most I managed to pull it of (and I am 100% sure I am not the only one). Again - this is better visible when using beam weapons - not blaster.

So to keep the same mechanic and make it more meaningful you'd have to make the bonus tiered like some people here suggested

Not neceserly. We may just raise max bonus from 50% to 100%. It still would be flowing as now - not sudden high jumps in power. We could also make it reach 50% dmg bonus on 70% flux level. That would give You 30% of Your rest flux for shooting with peak damage, and would allow You tu heat-up energy weapons faster, but STILL without sudden jumps in power. Also those numbers may be changed - just mechanic example. And to be honest, the more I am thinking about it, the more I find bonus damage tiered bad idea. So yes - I would not like this change to be implemented.

I'd like to add something on top of all this. I think flux is meant to be bad. It prevents you from firing, using shields, and it's intended.

Agree, but even bad things may have some good sides, and still remain bad.

It's pretty cool that there is something that differentiates energy from ballistics

100% agree.

I hope that You do understand reasons behind my thinking, and while You do not neceserily agree with them, You can see that points given by me are not without any sense.

[Pentarctagon]

Any implementation of providing a big boost to damage above X flux would need to rebalance beam weapons, since they can keep firing even when flux is maxed out.

[StahnAileron]

Hull Mod (built-in to Hi-Tech vessels; any that can mount significant energy weapons; intended to use energy weapons as primary weapons):

-Flux Feedback Crossover: Energy Weapons mount are cross-linked to the ship's Flux Vents. On Venting, XX% of flux vented is stored (up to YY% of ship Flux Capacity).

Now, here are two options:

• Option 1: On weapons-firing, stored flux is dumped into the firing weapons, boosting damage by AA% while consuming BB% of the weapons damage in stored flux.
• Option 2: Stored flux provides [up to] a AA% damage bonus to Energy Weapons [scaling with stored flux amount]. Stored Flux continually dissipates at ZZ% of Flux Vent rate.

Option 1 provides a simple mathematic mechanic for EWeap damage bonuses. Note I left the numbers up for debate. Could be fixed amounts instead of a percentage. It's just an outline for the idea.

Option 2 is closer to the current mechanic.

Unfortunately, both essentially require another bar to keep track of... (Especially if this is applied to all ships as a central mechanic rather than just a hull-specific mod, like the new Tug and Construction/Repair vessels.)

This just a rough outline. If anyone cares enough, I could address any points you might have or expand on the idea for discussion.