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[Ranakastrasz]

I guess this is what to be expected for not making 20 threads instead of just 2 or 3. People look at the one part they object to, and ignore the rest.

The most important thing here is the load safety, while the rest are all secondary. Not that that should matter.

Very simply, If you load a design, that has a hull mod, and that hull mod is installed, keep the hull mod, regardless of whether or not you have the tech.

[Ravendarke]

We are discussing possibility that you shoudn´t have be able to use that mod at all if you don´t have proficiency. So no "safety loading" would be needed at all.

[Voyager I]

We are discussing possibility that you shoudn´t have be able to use that mod at all if you don´t have proficiency. So no "safety loading" would be needed at all.

I think you are discussing that possibility.  We already start the game with hull mods we can't use.

[Ravendarke]

That wouldn´t be so problematic to change it, would it? Considering that game is in alpha state and things like starting ships are most likely going to change a lot for retail.

And don´t forget we are going to have built in mods.

[xenoargh]

Should be stripped as you have no proficiency in using it anyway... would just only take space otherwise.

This has never made any sense to me, other than the hand-waving answer of "it's necessary for balance purposes".

If I buy a car that contains a modified engine that gives it 50 more horse-power, it's there whether or not I know it's there or how it works.  

If I steal a car that has that same motor, it's still there.

The modification should be there, period, until it's removed.  Whether or not players can remove it or put it back into the ship, however, requires having the knowledge of how it works.  I can't remove the modifications to a car's engine- I'm not a mechanic.  Nor can I install it.  

But I should have it if I buy it or steal it or capture it.  It's just common sense.  Anything other than that is, like I said, just hand-waving about game-design necessity, and in this game setting, it's really hard to buy into.  

Then again, the whole idea that I can't just take my "car" and have somebody with the requisite skills upgrade it for me is also pretty hard to swallow.  There are no mechanics in the Sector?

But if I can do it, I can do it for free, somehow, which is also not reality.  Anybody who's fixed anything on a car or their PC knows it's not free.  The cost in Supplies and time isn't sufficient; it abstracts things a bit too much.  

I really would prefer Supplies to be split to Supplies and Spares, personally, so that Supplies feed my crew, Spares fix things and allow for modifications by my engineers or mechanics at a star base.  

One of these things would be high-bulk, low-expense, the other inverse.  If I want to save some money, I need time, engineers with the know-how, and Spares.  If I want to save time, I should shell out money at a starbase to have the local mechanics buy the necessary parts and install them.  

How it works right now is pretty obviously placeholder, though, so I haven't spoken up about it until now.

But, since I'm saying stuff... it's just not how things work in the real world, and it breaks my immersion in the setting.  I shouldn't have to imagine myself as a Renaissance Man/Woman, able to be a heroic pilot, commander, logistics expert and I'm also an expert mechanic and I'm also an expert at archeotechnology and I'm also some sort of engineer able to somehow(!) modify complex systems like a complex starship in a significant way.  

It's all a bit too silly.  I can't wait until we finally have the other Captains and can finally phase this stuff out of the alpha by farming out the specializations and spreading the character loads, Mount and Blade style, tbh.  Their Companion system made a lot of sense out of these sorts of situations.

[Ravendarke]

Xeno:

We have supplies, we will have CR, we can suppose that any hull mod need maintenance and some of them even proficiency in using them. My argumentation is based on that. If we will just take only maintenance in account, then Gothars solution is best, but I didnt suggested that as I was afraid it would be pretty resource hungry and would add management needed that wouldnt exactly increase fun factor (ou, fast, find fight before it will break down). If you consider this as nonsense then sorry but it is hard to take you seriously then.

For example I can imagine that maintenance of advanced gyros could be pretty complicated thing, sames go for advanced optic and so on.

But let me suggest something radical: Separate hull mods proficiency from Skill tree... let them be bought, researched and so on (so lets suppose that every captain with basic crew can maintain then)... coz if it is like you are saying and it doesnt need proficiency neither maintenance, just skill to instal it, then everyone in that universe would just pay some eng in station to instal it for them.. and in that case the actual system is complete nonsense.

[xenoargh]

I have zero problems with it breaking down and being unable to be replaced if you don't know how to fix it.  I just think that the issues with capturing Hulls with Mods you cannot currently access any other way is a non-issue.  If I have some neat Hull Mods on a ship that I captured, that's legit.

Frankly, I think if a ship takes enough damage, it should start losing random Hull Mods and will have to repair them later.  Would make bashing a fleet to death over multiple engagements a little less irksome.