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Author Topic: Starsector Modiverse (Starsector Equilibrium)  (Read 10115 times)

Thule

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Starsector Modiverse (Starsector Equilibrium)
« on: June 30, 2013, 07:41:02 AM »

Hi there,

as i like the variety of all the mods currently available for this game i would like to see a kind of starsector modiverse where certain mods stand alongside the vanilla factions (as well as balancewise, astheticly and so on).

IMO one would need a couple of rules those mods would have to accept to keep it all tightly strung together.

I would like to use this thread to come up and maybe later on propose a kind of codex of rules which would allow the creation of a strictly vanilla balanced mod version.

My thoughts so far:
Accept the Paragon as the pinnacle of destruction: "The pinnacle of the Domain's designs. NO ship can outlast or outgun the Paragon-class, a true Leviathan of a bygone epoch."
What are your opinions on that matter?

(SHIPS) Keep it manageable. There are 10 LOW TECH, 9 MID TECH and 11 HIGH TECH ship designs (not counting transporter, tanker or fighter). A Mod faction can't have more than 11 ship design.
What are your opinions on that matter?

(WEAPONS) Keep it manageable. Some of the custom weapons render vanilla weapons utterly useless. Should there be a maximum number of weapons a mod should be allowed to introduce?


As a final note, i don't aim to tell anybody what to do or not to do. Those maybe-rules could just be a guideline for modders who would like a more stringent universe and could act as a self_imposed code for future
mod collections or meta mods which sample a lot of mod factions.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 04:09:36 AM by Thule »
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TheHappyFace

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2013, 09:28:56 AM »

so you would like a sort of gathering of small mods to not over-rule vanilla ,but (...whats the word...) compliment it?

if so I agree on all your statements and would like to add a suggestion.
- new weapons should contain something unique and not just be a vanilla weapon with tweaked stats, although a retexture is allowed?
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Thule

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 12:07:38 PM »

Yeah, the goal would be a coherent starsector universe where the mod factions integrate themselves seamlessly.
And in contradiction to oppose the official lore they would "compliment" it.

- new weapons should contain something unique and not just be a vanilla weapon with tweaked stats, although a retexture is allowed?

Maybe something more like a maximum number of weapons. Pretty much the same approach
as with the ship designs. I think the restrictions of the total amount of weapons your mod could add, would lead to a kind of natual selection
where originality would be the design goal. As an example the Barbarossa cannon offers per se nothing new and is at its core just a tweaked
Hellbore Cannon. Or maybe i misunderstood what you meant with "something unique".

On the other hand i would restrict any retextured weapons, as it is "just" a recolored version. Or what do you mean with retextured?

Mod weapons should accept vanilla weapons as their respective pinnacle. They can be of course as strong as vanilla weapons, but not stronger.
I would propose the highest dps as a cap. This would ensure plenty of room for interessting variations of chargeup, uptime, downtime, burst size and so on.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 12:33:38 PM by Thule »
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Uomoz

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 12:11:21 PM »

I completely agree with this. The Paragon should be the strongest ship in game, even with modded (vanilla balanced) factions in.
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Silver Silence

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 12:23:58 PM »

And then the Paragon can look up to it's big angular brother, the Unsung.
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Gotcha!

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2013, 12:33:50 PM »

Although I love the idea, cutting my mod in half by throwing away half my fleet will keep me up at night.
I could get no lower than 19. ^_^'
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Thule

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2013, 12:52:18 PM »

I know what you mean, but maybe see it as a kind of "best of", handle it like the essence of your faction. Restricting yourselve
can sometimes be a promoter of ideas.

Maybe a short explanation why i propose such a harsh restriction in the first place.
IMO an overwhelming arsenal of ship designs a faction has in opposition to the vanilla faction imlpies a lorebreaking flaw.
More ship designs would mean a higher industrial, military and technological output. And as we know the dominant power
blocs in game are currently the Hegemony and Tri Tachyon (i guess?). I am not aiming to restrict that there are maybe equal power blocs
as mod factions. But there should be at least an intended struggle visible/noticable in the certain design of a mod faction.
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TheHappyFace

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2013, 01:07:56 PM »

with retexture i ment what is done to the hellborn cannon, so not just changing the hue and giving it emp.

so to make it short, i agree with you.  : )

I think i'll contribute to this! if ofcourse you want my input...
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Gotcha!

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2013, 01:45:15 PM »

By the by, I counted 14 Tritachyon ships. (Or at least, vanilla ships with blue engine exhaust.)
This doesn't count fighters or it'd be 6 more.

If enough animo then I think I will go with you on this, trying to reduce my ship count to around 14, not counting in fighters.
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Thule

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2013, 02:01:46 PM »

@Gotcha
14 Tri Tachyon ships?
i recounted them, i did not count the phase ships (+3) though ;)

And by the way, i don't mean your original mod should be "cut short". By other means you
could provide a "Starsector Modiverse" version of your mod for people who like this idea and
meta modders who want to add multiple mod factions to their mod.

@Happy
Sure, your input is more then welcome.

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HELMUT

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2013, 02:02:36 PM »

Basically it would be a codex to establish the bases of a modded (vanilla balanced) faction? I think it's a good idea.

Taking original Starsector ships as a point of reference with the Paragon as the top tier ship seems be reasonable, even with some steps aside from the rule (like the Unsung).

However i am not sure about limiting the number of ships design per faction. I mean, some faction can be lore-wise some pirates-scrappers who make new ships from spare parts. As such, their faction can end up with a bucketload or different ships as they are no standard design. Same thing with the weapons. (and actually most modded faction got more than two dozens ships)

So yeah, no fixed number for the limitations. Just a construction pattern which the modder can deviate a bit here and there i think.

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Thule

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2013, 02:29:04 PM »

I think i understand your point helmut, altough i could argue your argument in regards of the maximum number of ships. Arguments based on lore are always shaky because they depend in a great deal of subjective interpretations of the existing lore.

The Aim of this codex is to provide a stringent and balanced universe. The main goal IMO would be the following motto: "Keep it manageable. To do so the codex has to have a strict set of rules.

I cant imagine a modmaker having fun to balance 21 ships, 13 weapons and maybe 6 shipsystems in correlation to vanilla ships AND ALL other potential modfactions united in this kind of Codex. Or imagine a guy like Zaphide or Uomoz trying to balance 100's of ships and weapons by themselves.
 
Therefore restricting the maximum number of ships a participating mod faction should have is absolutly pragmatical motivated.

Those deliberate use of restrictions should be of use for every participating modmaker in the end as it keeps the workload manageable. Less is More ;)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 02:37:13 PM by Thule »
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TheHappyFace

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2013, 12:39:17 AM »

so how axactly is it gonna happen?
do we need to create a small standalone mod and pm the download link to you for placement on the OP
or is this gonna be some kind of compilation?
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Zaphide

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2013, 01:50:03 AM »

All good ideas I think :)

The only part I am not sure about is limiting the amount of individual ships per faction. I think Alex has mentioned that there may be a couple more ships for the Vanilla factions, and we really haven't seen the industry side of the game much yet. I think that ~10 ships is a bit limiting if each faction also wants to have their own tanker/cargo/personnel ships.

I think it starts becoming unwieldy (for balance, mod making and just general gameplay) when we have many ships that are essentially identical. If a mod maker implements 30 ships for their faction, all of which are wildly different, then I feel that's OK :) (provided they are happy to balance them :P)
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MrDavidoff

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Re: Starsector Modiverse
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2013, 03:47:23 AM »

Forgive my bluntness, but doesnt it basicly boil down to, do we need another meshup?

And I feel it would in the end boil down to one person, who would need to do the balancing.

There are many mods out there and each and every player can choose the mods as it is and mod it(balance it) for him/herself,
picking out individual stuff, could upset some ppl("why isnt this in, why is it so useless now.." kinda questions).

Personaly I wouldnt join in, because in a nutshell, my mods are breaking all the suggested rules  ;D
and trimming stuff down, or deliberatelly nerfing it (so its much weaker than Paragon..) wouldnt
simply be in line with my original idea for factions..(that i have or am working on..).

Just 2 cents.
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