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News: Starsector 0.65.1a is out!
 
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Author Topic: Logistics & Fleet Management  (Read 9618 times)
Alex
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« on: May 25, 2013, 02:51:23 PM »

Blog post here.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 02:53:58 PM by Alex » Logged
Thaago
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2013, 03:00:07 PM »

Cool. I like the separation of combat vs non-combat role costs - should make for some interesting possible scenarios.
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FloW
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2013, 03:04:17 PM »

I can't wait for the new patch. This is all interesting stuff and I really want to see how it plays.

It's also nice to see that the game changes so much.

Seriously though, Alex, that new patch sounds awesome. How much of the coding is already done?
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Alex
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2013, 03:14:53 PM »

How much of the coding is already done?

For the whole update? Can't really estimate, though it's definitely winding down. For the stuff in the blog post, it's all functional, but the UI is very much WIP. You may have noticed a lack of screenshots; that's why.
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Pelhamds
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2013, 03:34:03 PM »

This is a really big updatemibob, so I will splurge out my thoughts on it.

From what I understand the Logistics side of thing will not (really) affect the combat side of things, unless you count the CR, which is really good that we now have something else to micromanage while pursuing the hordes of pirates for their supplies.

But I have one real big query apart from the obvious one that will mean all modded ships would need a bit of reworking to get the same kind of dynamic, the big query is what this new stat would mean for fighters and any other systems used in combat that uses supplies, would this affect the Logistics value? e.g. having 3 flights of Talons resupply in combat  would having that many fighters affect my Logistics value out of combat?
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Alex
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2013, 03:43:10 PM »

But I have one real big query apart from the obvious one that will mean all modded ships would need a bit of reworking to get the same kind of dynamic, the big query is what this new stat would mean for fighters and any other systems used in combat that uses supplies, would this affect the Logistics value? e.g. having 3 flights of Talons resupply in combat  would having that many fighters affect my Logistics value out of combat?

Good question, hadn't considered it; but the way fighters work will change, so that won't be an issue.
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Pelhamds
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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2013, 03:47:05 PM »

Phew that made me worry a bit then.

(Adding/added in some 17 fighters so would not be happy if they broke in a month or less knowing how you ambush with releases Tongue )
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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2013, 04:21:57 PM »

I'm liking the focus on extra-combat logistics in general. I'm also liking the the way things like this act like "soft" caps. Yeah, you can have your giant mega-fleet without taking any extra skills, but you'll have constant accidents, low combat readiness, and whatnot.

I have a few thoughts/questions:

Does the CR reduction from overloaded logistics apply linearly? i.e. 50% LR gives -25% Max CR.

It seems to me that one could run a fleet for only a fraction of its cost if you had all ships with maximum CR. It'd shoot back up after the first battle. Might make sense for some kind of trading fleet sacrificing supply storage for more goods, hoping it never has to actually fight. Then again, depending on how hard it is to reach max CR this may or may not be actually viable.

How much does, say, the Hegemony SDF use in daily supplies? Will an Atlas need to keep the Onslaughts company?
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Alex
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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2013, 04:35:51 PM »

Does the CR reduction from overloaded logistics apply linearly? i.e. 50% LR gives -25% Max CR.

Yep, linear.

It seems to me that one could run a fleet for only a fraction of its cost if you had all ships with maximum CR. It'd shoot back up after the first battle. Might make sense for some kind of trading fleet sacrificing supply storage for more goods, hoping it never has to actually fight. Then again, depending on how hard it is to reach max CR this may or may not be actually viable.

If you take a more careful look at the blog post, that's actually how it works Smiley Kind of. Maintenance costs a lot less supplies when ships are at maximum CR, the key difference being that the logistics impact of the ship is still the same - the full maintenance cost.

I'm sure we can come up with some reasonable in-fiction explanation for why that is. Lets, uh, say that the needs of a ship at maximum readiness are more difficult to anticipate, while a ship that's not at that level has a workplan all mapped out, since it's already clear what needs fixing where.


How much does, say, the Hegemony SDF use in daily supplies? Will an Atlas need to keep the Onslaughts company?

I'm aiming for maybe a 1-2 month deployment for larger ships w/o freighters and such. Frigate and destroyers can spend less time on their own, while fighters obviously need support due to not having any cargo capacity.

Of course, that time greatly depends on the repairs that need doing, and whether the fleet sees a lot of action.
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Silver Silence
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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2013, 04:39:06 PM »

Eh, the blogpost didn't explain much for me either.  Tongue
Guess I'll just have to wait and play 0.6 and hope my one-man-army doom fleet still works. I much prefer flying my ships myself because I just don't trust the AI with what I think is a good (and usually expensive) fit, only to lose it in the first meagre fight. Fighters work for me because they no-clip which means no friendly fire issues or derpy AI blocking shots, and of course, they refit in combat.


How much does, say, the Hegemony SDF use in daily supplies? Will an Atlas need to keep the Onslaughts company?

I'm aiming for maybe a 1-2 month deployment for larger ships w/o freighters and such. Frigate and destroyers can spend less time on their own, while fighters obviously need support due to not having any cargo capacity.

Of course, that time greatly depends on the repairs that need doing, and whether the fleet sees a lot of action.

Will a lone battleship or carrier with fighters be able to handle "the great outdoors", as it were?
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Decer304
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2013, 05:34:14 PM »

Very nice post. Although i do wonder, after reading about the supplies part,  would fighters that dock and repair at a carrier consume, or when a ship fixes its guns and engines consume supplies and if so, would there be some sort of section in the post-combat report where it gives you some stats and supplies consumed for the in-combat repairs? Because that would add alot more depth in the game.
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2013, 05:43:26 PM »

I'm aiming for maybe a 1-2 month deployment for larger ships w/o freighters and such. Frigate and destroyers can spend less time on their own, while fighters obviously need support due to not having any cargo capacity.

Of course, that time greatly depends on the repairs that need doing, and whether the fleet sees a lot of action.

The ISS Black Star might not be quite so independent, then. The idea of a lone ship against the world has romance to it, if not necessarily logical sense. Perhaps there could a skill for reducing the costs of the piloted ship alone, to provide room for one-ship fleets.

Then again, the Max CR supply reduction might be enough on its own. There may be only one battle between resupplies, as I figure the standard mercenary life is as following:

1) Find mission.
2) Blow stuff up.
3) Return to base to repair, refit, and refuel, then back to 1).

This is, of course, if everything goes right.  Wink

@Decer304: Currently, repairing fighters does use supplies, and it says so in the battle messages. It doesn't give an amount used after battle as far as I know.
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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2013, 06:01:11 PM »

You just couldn't let me sleep, could you?
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naufrago
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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2013, 06:06:49 PM »

Well, the blog post didn't really tell me much I hadn't already assumed from the patch notes, but it's good to have confirmation regardless. =p I do like how you handled things with LR, always a fan of clever design.
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Gothars
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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2013, 06:10:08 PM »

Thank you for following up with a detailed explanation so swiftly Alex. It sounds all very intriguing. Can't wait to actually try it.

Still, questions:
If the maximum CR is reduced by a <100% LR value, where does the "reduced maintenance cost for ship with full CR" effect come into play? At absolute maximum CR or at the current, reduced maximum CR?


You said before that a 100%CR ship will be a rare sight and that about 50% CR ships will be the norm. That had me expecting that keeping a ship at ~50% would result in the lowest maintenance cost and keeping it at 100% would cost a lot of extra supplies and be only possible for a short time. Now it turns out that 100%CR has actually the lowest permanent costs. I could not really see anything that necessitates the condition described in your old statement, did I overlook something (Which is very possible due to large amounts of Haselnussschnaps. Yeah, we have words with 3 s now.) or did you change your approach?
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