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Author Topic: forceful weapons (f=ma)  (Read 2622 times)

fireflambe

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forceful weapons (f=ma)
« on: March 19, 2013, 08:10:22 AM »

I think that a great addition to the game would be impact from projectiles. Nothing would feel better than flying a destroyer with three large ballistic mounts equipped with some sort of heavy cannon, and having all three projectiles connect with an oncoming frigate and have it stop dead in its tracks. Or, the adverse affect, such as having an overly-large weapon mounted on to a light frigate and having the kickback throw your craft back a bit. I would think that this addition to the game is relatively simple to implement, and its addition would give a lot more impact to all of the weapons. It could also inspire new weapon types and strategies, such as having an intentionally overweight ship equipped with extremely high caliber weapons that may not do much damage to an opponents shields, but could force them away from your fragile yet powerfully equipped long range destroyers. Of course, I might not be seeing all the downsides to this, so feel free to point out flaws in this idea.
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Pelly

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Re: forceful weapons (f=ma)
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 08:19:52 AM »

This would be very fun, I can imagine now frigates turning around at full speed and shooting backwards to become flying explosives....though the 'mass' will have to be reduced so they don't look they are just hit by a machine gun and fly across the map.
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arcibalde

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Re: forceful weapons (f=ma)
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 08:52:17 AM »

I think that a great addition to the game would be impact from projectiles. Nothing would feel better than flying a destroyer with three large ballistic mounts equipped with some sort of heavy cannon, and having all three projectiles connect with an oncoming frigate and have it stop dead in its tracks. Or, the adverse affect, such as having an overly-large weapon mounted on to a light frigate and having the kickback throw your craft back a bit. I would think that this addition to the game is relatively simple to implement, and its addition would give a lot more impact to all of the weapons. It could also inspire new weapon types and strategies, such as having an intentionally overweight ship equipped with extremely high caliber weapons that may not do much damage to an opponents shields, but could force them away from your fragile yet powerfully equipped long range destroyers. Of course, I might not be seeing all the downsides to this, so feel free to point out flaws in this idea.
Hi welcome to the forum  ;D
This was discussed long time ago (or just ago). Short answer = no :)   To complicated for AI, not realistic, you have large ships, naval ships with really huge guns and they don't move when they fire. Remember that graphical representation of weapons in this game is not in scale with ships. Weapons are muuuuch bigger than they really are.
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Relics MOD - vanilla balanced - Campaign integrated
Vanilla addon MOD - vanilla balanced - Campaign integrated
Project ONI MOD - mission only

Alex

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Re: forceful weapons (f=ma)
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 08:58:11 AM »

Hi!

Just wanted to mention that I'd actually tried this early on in development, and couldn't get it to feel right. Due to the high rates of fire generally involved, it felt too smooth; more like just another type of engine than the jarring from hits and recoil.

Part of it is, also, that I don't think we naturally expect recoil to work quite like it would in space. You expect to see something jar backwards then go back into place or at least slow down, not fully maintain its change in velocity, if this makes any sense at all. Could try that, of course, but it would only really be applicable to very few weapons (maybe the Hellbore?). For the rest, the individual recoil from each shot is just too small for a pronounced effect like that (or, if it's high enough, firing weapons becomes a preferred method of movement... or, firing at something moves it out of your range much too effectively).

So, just boils down to "spent some time trying it, didn't achieve satisfying results, dropped it."
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FlashFrozen

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Re: forceful weapons (f=ma)
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 09:21:20 AM »

How about instead of transferring force, projectiles can have that jarring effect, sorta like impact from graviton beams, but instead, it knocks turreted weapons off aim/ spins the enemy ship in a random direction with respect to impact / (enemy ship) mass

So a hellbore hitting a lasher hull, would sorta give it the spin a flameout produces except maybbe a bit more jarring.

The turret shake impact will not be as noticeable compared to the spin imparted, but on larger ships say like an onslaught, maybe it'll jar a turret 2-3 degrees off the previous aim vector.

Just an Idea :P
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fireflambe

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Re: forceful weapons (f=ma)
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 07:19:42 PM »

I am now a sad panda :(. Maybe one day. FlashFrozen, I didn't catch anything you said other than the last bit about turret impacts.
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JT

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Re: forceful weapons (f=ma)
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 11:32:09 AM »

Jumping in here since I've been off in la-la-land for a while, what about exposing "force transfer" to API so that mod authors can try their own recoil routines themselves?

The other thing that immediately stood out for me is when Alex mentioned the "jar backwards then go back into place" concept: after all, these ships do have manoeuvring thrusters. It might be interesting to give API control over these too, so that when the player fires a weapon, the MV thrusters automatically kick in to counterbalance the impulse from the weapon. This might even have Interesting™ repercussions if you wanted to use those MV thrusters for actually manoeuvring at the time, introducing a balance to the overgunned light frigate where it can't handle so many big guns due to the shock it produces on the hull.
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Aethelric

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Re: forceful weapons (f=ma)
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2013, 11:23:42 AM »

Having the manuevering jets and perhaps engines automatically compensate would be excellent; it would effectively eat up a certain portion of your manueverability/speed to fire oversized weaponry.  A suitably lightweight craft with a large ballistic weapon (or a large missile that fired its thrusters from inside the tube to launch) would likely be the only craft to actually be "pushed" by their own fire.

Although, it's entire plausible that recoilless systems are standard in space; one can imagine that there would be quite a premium on making systems which didn't subject your spacecraft to extra stresses during combat.
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