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[Solinarius]

Hello all, I'm Aaron, and I love the potential of this game.

At first glance, I didn't connect the obvious similarities to Mount & Blade. However, once I did, I immediately remembered the thorn in my side that is party speed. In M&B there were mods that allowed you to form separate parties so you could dodge the artificially balanced downside of having a big army. I think we can all agree that this solution was better than how it is by default. What I'm suggesting for Starsector, is this solution be elaborated on in a balanced manner.

Solution A (conformed and balanced)
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Fleets remain as a single mass and have a uniform speed, but when attempting to engage, there is an initial speed boost and the bubble's range temporarily increases by an amount depending on the class of ships available. Obviously the ships available to you if you catch your prey should be limited to a small variety of the fastest ships you have. I believe this "ability" should also have some kind of short cooldown. This solution aims to keep the fleet system as close to vanilla as possible, while eliminating its flaws.

Solution B (practical yet fancy)
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A system is implemented that allows you to customize your fleet with detachment groups. These groups will break off from the fleet and move as if they were independent during an engagement, but will have limited range that depends on the classes within said group. Think of these detachments as scouting parties that can only be away from the main body for a short time due to supply needs. This solution attempts to add additional depth and functionality to the fleet system, while giving it some slight eye candy.

Solution C (functional but messy)
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A system is implemented that allows you to detach ships into designated groups that will follow the main fleet but become independent during engagements. I think this is already more or less possible due to how you assign ships in your fleet to planets you "own". This solution would be the least desirable, but still better than how it currently is.

By the way, what is the official name for the "travel map".

[mostmodest]

As far as I understand, the officers update will do this sort of thing. (I think).

I just call it the Travel Map.

[Solinarius]

As far as I understand, the officers update will do this sort of thing. (I think).

If that's true, it's good to know. I can't understand why this problem was allowed to remain in M&B after beta.

[Flare]

Solution A (conformed and balanced)
----------
Fleets remain as a single mass and have a uniform speed, but when attempting to engage, there is an initial speed boost and the bubble's range temporarily increases by an amount depending on the class of ships available. Obviously the ships available to you if you catch your prey should be limited to a small variety of the fastest ships you have. I believe this "ability" should also have some kind of short cooldown. This solution aims to keep the fleet system as close to vanilla as possible, while eliminating its flaws.

On another handle, this might tie in very well with the combat readiness thing and the consumption of supplies. It might be a fleet ability to temporarily expand their engagement range in order to more easily catch other fleets who are weaving and bobbing, or where expanding it might close the gap when both fleets are quite close together in a gravity well, but nevertheless will never touch when heading in a straight line.

[Gothars]

At first glance, I didn't connect the obvious similarities to Mount & Blade. However, once I did, I immediately remembered the thorn in my side that is party speed. In M&B there were mods that allowed you to form separate parties so you could dodge the artificially balanced downside of having a big army. I think we can all agree that this solution was better than how it is by default.

Welcome Aaron

Mh...where is the problem with travel speed? I think it makes very much sense that big fleets have a hard time catching up to small ones. As long as you have small fleets yourself that mechanic is what keeps you alive.

I'm not an avid M&B player, so I'm not familiar with that issue there.

As far as I understand, the officers update will do this sort of thing. (I think).

I doubt it. We will have to wait and see what officers will do.

[Flare]

At first glance, I didn't connect the obvious similarities to Mount & Blade. However, once I did, I immediately remembered the thorn in my side that is party speed. In M&B there were mods that allowed you to form separate parties so you could dodge the artificially balanced downside of having a big army. I think we can all agree that this solution was better than how it is by default.

Welcome Aaron

Mh...where is the problem with travel speed? I think it makes very much sense that big fleets have a hard time catching up to small ones. As long as you have small fleets yourself that mechanic is what keeps you alive.

I'm not an avid M&P player, so I'm not familiar with that issue there.

He's not raising an issue with travel speed I think, merely pointing out the ways in which M&B players have been able to exploit the ability to split up their forces while the AI is left floundering and unable to fight back against it.

In M&B mods that allow you to split up your forces and command them around generally gives the player a huge advantage. In one common example, you could split up your cavalry from your infantry and archers, thus one big group becomes two. In M&B, battles are not instantaneous, meaning that the faster cavalry force can effectively run smaller faster parties down, and hold them in play in combat, while the rest of your force catches up and deliver a curb stomp to an otherwise uncatchable opponent, or if you are able to catch him, an unbeatable opponent due to his size.

Obviously in SS this might be a bit different as battles happen instantaneously with a winner decided the moment two fleets make contact. It still can be exploited however, splitting up your forces into a fleet filled with the fastest frigates would be able to "herd" smaller fleets into your big ones that would otherwise not be able to catch them, and due to their size can easily crush these small fleets all day long.

[Solinarius]

At first glance, I didn't connect the obvious similarities to Mount & Blade. However, once I did, I immediately remembered the thorn in my side that is party speed. In M&B there were mods that allowed you to form separate parties so you could dodge the artificially balanced downside of having a big army. I think we can all agree that this solution was better than how it is by default.

Welcome Aaron

Mh...where is the problem with travel speed? I think it makes very much sense that big fleets have a hard time catching up to small ones. As long as you have small fleets yourself that mechanic is what keeps you alive.

I'm not an avid M&P player, so I'm not familiar with that issue there.

He's not raising an issue with travel speed I think, merely pointing out the ways in which M&B players have been able to exploit the ability to split up their forces while the AI is left floundering and unable to fight back against it.

In M&B mods that allow you to split up your forces and command them around generally gives the player a huge advantage. In one common example, you could split up your cavalry from your infantry and archers, thus one big group becomes two. In M&B, battles are not instantaneous, meaning that the faster cavalry force can effectively run smaller faster parties down, and hold them in play in combat, while the rest of your force catches up and deliver a curb stomp to an otherwise uncatchable opponent, or if you are able to catch him, an unbeatable opponent due to his size.

Obviously in SS this might be a bit different as battles happen instantaneously with a winner decided the moment two fleets make contact. It still can be exploited however, splitting up your forces into a fleet filled with the fastest frigates would be able to "herd" smaller fleets into your big ones that would otherwise not be able to catch them, and due to their size can easily crush these small fleets all day long.

Flare pretty much knows where I'm going with this. I don't have a problem with travel speed since it does its duty. However, it's simply the fact that a big fleet has no chance of catching a small one that is not fun. I'm sure any fan of M&B would say they despised its equivalent of this. Fleets have different classes for a reason and it would be great to expand that to the travel map. However, this cannot be done by simply allowing you to split your fleet at will, because as mentioned above, it creates exploitative opportunity. Official implementation would be far better than a mod in this matter.

I also forgot to elaborate on what would happen should the enemy be caught in A or B. Basically, reinforcements for the pursuer would be limited to its lighter class ships for a period of time if one of its "detachments" caught the pursuant. Therefore, the pursuant might have an advantage and will still escape and you'd lose ships. This maneuver should be risky for both sides.

[MindsEye]

I suggested something similar. Make the travel window have actual tactical decisions with your fleet. Certain frigs can be interceptors for the main fleet a certain distance from the main fleet. When you engage the battle the rest of your fleet is unavailable until they can arrive based on how far away they were when it started and their speed of course. Seems like this interface could open up more diversity and options in the travel window making you feel like you are actually commanding a fleet. Still would also like to see more realistic movements based on the ships you have in your fleet. Seems like all the pilots are drunk as is.