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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Poll

Increase OP on some frigates (counterparts of vanilla frigates)

Yes, please up the OP
- 85 (75.2%)
No, leave it as it is now
- 23 (20.4%)
No, other...
- 5 (4.4%)

Total Members Voted: 113


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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] Tore Up Plenty - Vanilla Friendly Mod - Campaign+Nexerelin  (Read 396560 times)

Clutch31313

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Everything things to work wonderfully, and I'm loving the options. Is there anywhere I might find a comprehensive list of ships with descriptions of informations to help me decide what ships to start with? It takes a really long time to "choose" ships, load up a new system, and then navigate to the refit screen just to see what each ship in this mod does. Again, I'm really digging the starting options. It really gives the player a substantial sense of choice.
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CaptainWinky

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The Codex is a great reference but unfortunately you can't look at it while picking ships.  Here's a quick and dirty summary of all the ships you can pick, in the order they appear.

Spoiler
Capitals
Cormorant: TUP's biggest carrier, sort of an improvised Astral.  It has 4 fighter bays.  Ship system: machinegun PD drones.
Damocles: Heavily modified Atlas.  Actually is a large cruiser so I need to put it in the cruisers menu next version.  Half the cargo capacity, but it has a fighter bay and enough guns to put up a fight.  System: burn drive.
Dreadnought: Well, it's a dreadnought.  Built from the wreckage of Onslaughts and includes one built-in Thermal Pulse Cannon.  System: burn drive.
Overlord: A command ship that doubles as a salvage freighter with its built-in salvage gantry.  It has enough weapon mounts to protect itself but should probably not be used offensively.  System: burn drive.

Cruisers
Centaur: High-tech heavy cruiser, it can hit hard but is not super maneuverable.  System: high energy focus.
Mace: Light cruiser.  System: machinegun drones.
Perigee: Modified Apogee with an alternate weapon layout.  System: sensor drones.
Phoenix: Civilian-grade cruiser.  Has decent cargo and crew capacity, also has a fighter bay.  I think of it as a faster less armored Venture, it can defend itself and contribute to a fight but should not get in the middle of it.  System: laser PD drones.
Stampede: RAMMING SPEED!  It has a powerful array of built-in mining weaponry.  Keep in mind that even with the Stampede's high armor and hull, ramming will not always work in your favor.  System: plasma jets.
Taskmaster: An extremely up-armored Dominator.  It's a great tank but it's incredibly slow as a result.  Good for defense and dumping missiles.  System: burn drive.

Carriers include a mixture of cruisers and destroyers focused on carrier duty.
Hermit: Well-armored utility ship with a built-in Typhoon reaper launcher and a fighter bay.  System: burn drive.
Lance: A Gemini with a much better weapons package and 2 fighter bays.  System: reserve wing.
Rover: Not as well armed as the Lance but it's faster and has 3 fighter bays.  System: targeting feed.
Talus: A carrier freighter, sort of like a Condor with more cargo space and small weapon mounts but only 1 fighter bay.  System: laser PD drones.

Destroyers
Annihilator: Heavy destroyer with a built-in railgun, it packs a punch.  System: flare launcher.
Barracuda: Solid midsize destroyer.  System: maneuvering jets.
Buck: Hauls cargo crew and fuel equally well.  Better armored than a Mule but all its weapon mounts are forward hardpoints.  System: flare launcher.
Buzzard: Heavy destroyer/pocket cruiser with a lot of energy mounts.  System: maneuvering jets.
Daedalus: High-tech destroyer with built-in mining blasters.  System: phase skimmer.
Hedgehog: Has a deadly array of starboard-facing missiles but no shields.  System: fast missile racks.
Jules: Missile barge.  Lighter than the Hedgehog but it has shields.  System: burn drive.
Marshall: A lighter alternative to the vanilla Enforcer.  System: accelerated ammo feeder.
Void: Science vessel suitable for long-range exploration.  It's fast for a destroyer and can defend itself.  Built-in surveying equipment and high-res sensors.  System: sensor drones.
Wildebeest: If the Buffalo Mk2 wasn't dangerous enough for you, try this.  Has a built-in antimatter blaster and enough weapon mounts that you can do whatever you want with it.  Like the Buffalo Mk2, it is unshielded.  System: flare launcher.

Frigates
Bloodhound: A Hound with more of a bite.  The hull expansions make it a bigger target though.  Shielded cargo holds.  System: accelerated ammo feeder.
Foxhound: A TUP classic, it's close to the original Hound but has better defenses.  Shielded cargo holds.  System: machinegun PD drones.
Icarus: High-tech, low-HP, meant to strike and flee.  If you like the Hyperion you might like this.  System: phase teleporter.
Moth: Heavy frigate based on a stripped-down Mule.  System: burn drive.
Owen: High-tech defensive frigate.  System: fortress shield.
Platypus: Small but dangerous missile frigate.  System: fast missile racks.
Redstar: An optimized Wolfpack.  Shielded cargo holds.  System: flare launcher.
Ryker: Dram tanker with most of its fuel capacity removed in exchange for an integrated Hellbore cannon.  System: flare launcher.
Sentinel: Modified Vigilance with a lot of mounts for high customizability.  System: flare launcher.
Skylark SC: Hauler optimized for cargo.  120 cargo, 50 fuel.  System: maneuvering jets.
Skylark SF: Hauler optimized for fuel.  50 cargo, 120 fuel.  Also more fuel-efficient than the SC.  System: maneuvering jets.
Striker: Modified Lasher with more mobility at the cost of the ammo feeder.  System: burn drive.
Thunderchild: High-tech shuttle, extremely fast.  System: laser PD drones.
Timberwolf: Lower-tech Wolf with a medium ballistic main mount and a lot of smaller mounts.  System: maneuvering jets.
Underdog: Stripped-down Hound, extremely fast but also extremely fragile.  System: maneuvering jets.
Wolfpack: Foxhound/Cerberus mashup, lots of weapon mounts but unshielded and a large target.  Shielded cargo holds.  System: flare launcher.
Wrestler: Modified Brawler with more weapon mounts.  System: accelerated ammo feeder.
[close]
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 10:28:59 AM by CaptainWinky »
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Clutch31313

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That's a great reference. Thanks!
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Death_Silence_66

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Many of the added fighters are way too cheap OP wise (ex, Buckler is 6 to the Piranha's 10) . Additionally, many of the stock variants don't use all of their OP.
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CaptainWinky

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Many of the added fighters are way too cheap OP wise (ex, Buckler is 6 to the Piranha's 10) . Additionally, many of the stock variants don't use all of their OP.

Next version will address the variants.  I sat down and tweaked most of them in the dev mode variant editor yesterday, then discovered to my horror that none of them saved.  Someone already gave me a solution for this (run as administrator then look for saved variants in starfarer.res folder instead of Starsector folder) so next version you should see more caps/vents/hullmods in general as well as removal of some redundant hullmods (point defense AI on a ship that only has PD weapons on small mounts).

I wasn't sure how the fighters would hold up compared to the current vanilla fighters so I left their OP cost low.  Looks like they could use a speed increase in general.  How do they hold up in combat for you?  I've had good luck with Raiders, and Boartusks seem to do okay at intercepting as well as pressuring ships' shields.
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Death_Silence_66

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I did some testing with the fighters using a condor vs. the Assault enforcer, hope this will be helpful.

The Hawks seem to behave like longbows and fire their sabots from long range and then rearm, rarely using their other weapons.

The Bucklers prefer to use their swarmers and don't try to bomb until they are within vulcan range. I tested this again vs. an Atlas to and the result was the same. They behave as if they were heavy fighters.

The Raider shuttles might need an armor/hull nerf as they are able to tank fire from the Enforcer very well.

The Gull heavy fighters are sluggish but are a bit too powerful. A firepower or armor nerf should fix this.

Boartusks seem fine but could use the speed buff.

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CaptainWinky

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Thank you for the feedback!  I adjusted the Buckler and Hawk behavior tags as well as the Buckler's engagement range.  This seems to have fixed the Buckler's point blank bombing runs and the Hawk's tendency to dump its Sabot and flee.  I have also increased OP cost and decreased armor and hull on all fighters.  Finally I revised ship variants and made sure they saved this time.  Here's the new update.  It shouldn't break any saves.

Download Tore Up Plenty v0.8.0c

Spoiler
Version 0.8.0c
--------------
+ lots of adjustments to fighters: lower armor and hull, higher speed, higher OP cost, revised behavior tags
+ another slight OP bump for all ships with fighter bays to compensate for the increased fighter cost
+ Rover burn speed reduced to 8
+ all variants revised to remove unnecessary hullmods and use the extra OPs
[close]
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Drokkath

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@CaptainWinky

Neat, been too busy customizing the game for myself in a form of having a customized and personalized modpack for my own use only.
I did try about a few days ago starting out with Hermit and seeing what it has to offer since I first wondered what Hermit as a start ship would be like without having to use Console Commands.

Well, for me it was/is a pain to do combat with it and it has nothing to do with ship being bad, nah, instead it's me unable to function without a super-ship and the new SS's .8 version that feels like a lot of normal difficulty got pushed near to hard and easy difficulty pushed near to normal. Heck I even had to crank up the Hi-octane crazy pumps and give my favorite super-ships a mad boost to all stats and make a separate version of heavy blaster that is colored beige, is a bit bulkier when you look at it closer and it fires out red energy projectiles filled with my wrath and will to steamroll the battle.. liberally. :D

One day I just zoned out and kept steamrolling everything in-game and I yearned for more ships to blast into derelicts, break the backs of those who fled and if the ship initially exploded and didn't have a part of it torn off yet, I just rammed into them with my very heavy but small super-ship that day with insane amounts of speed and rage and shot and tore them asunder.
The sweet ecstasy of ripping and tearing anything in my way apart, destabilizing factions and slowly pushing the human presence away from the sector. I have problems, I know but at least I can calm my mind that way and get the worst and the darkest impulses out of me to keep my edge off in RL.
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For I dipt in to the future, far as my gazer eye could see; Saw the vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be.

Hussar

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In general i always liked this mod, however - I think that Talus could use some changes. It's meant to be a conversion, a different Gemini of sorts - but the cargo space totally declassifies that ship in this role. Right now standard Tarsus fulfills this role way better really (albeit u need converted hangars mod). I would bump up Talus'es cargo into 250 range like Gemini. Maybe bit less to make it more of an alternative than outright outclassing the Gemini.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 12:22:40 PM by Hussar »
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Erick Doe

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Many of the added fighters are way too cheap OP wise (ex, Buckler is 6 to the Piranha's 10) . Additionally, many of the stock variants don't use all of their OP.

Was OP boosted on the frigates, without changing the variants loadouts?
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CaptainWinky

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In general i always liked this mod, however - I think that Talus could use some changes. It's meant to be a conversion, a different Gemini of sorts - but the cargo space totally declassifies that ship in this role. Right now standard Tarsus fulfills this role way better really (albeit u need converted hangars mod). I would bump up Talus'es cargo into 250 range like Gemini. Maybe bit less to make it more of an alternative than outright outclassing the Gemini.
That sounds good, probably gonna go with 200 cargo.  Not sure when I'll do another update but I'll eventually do some polish stuff.

Many of the added fighters are way too cheap OP wise (ex, Buckler is 6 to the Piranha's 10) . Additionally, many of the stock variants don't use all of their OP.

Was OP boosted on the frigates, without changing the variants loadouts?
I've updated all the variants in 0.8.0c.  They use all their OP and should hold up better in a fight, for anyone fighting against them or alongside them.
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Drokkath

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Darn, I started an alternate playthrough with Hermit-class but with easy mode this time and took more time to see how can I use the default vessel in combat simulation and it's still painful for me to do, did however find my usual primal chaingun and light dual machine gun solution still working but only closer than before. I could throw antimatter and heavy blaster there on the front but I'm not much of a missile or other weapons that run out of ammo user. The only default missiles/ammo-charge weaponry I like using is a swarmer since it has just enough missiles to spam-fire liberally in case of too much danger.

And once again, has nothing really to do with the ship but rather me finding out that it's much harder to do any combat in the .8 version of the game, even in easy mode with all of the hullmods, even the ones you can't install in-game, had to spawn it in after making an over modded variant file for the Hermit and I still suck at getting through a large combat fleet which wasn't as hard in the previous version. Soloing anything is much more of a risk now and I hate it when I have to have more ships and fighters taking down something I wanna tear apart, felt like mowing down my own fighter wing.

Oh, well. Back to inserting my super-ship version of a Hermit that has two more visual areas where to attach missile weaponry.

EDIT_1: Aaand done! In a way this is just my own crazy way of using stuff I find interesting but can't use them with their default values.

...

EDIT_2: Did I kill the thread or something with me blitherings? Sorry if I did, I just tend to go into great lengths of some random subject to another random subject to a point I have to decide what writing to change or remove and make the post somewhat more shorter.
That aside, I think should watch some Nemonaemo's recent playthrough videos with .8 version in hopes of seeing and finding new ways to play the game.

To remain on-topic: In one of my attempts I started out with an Annihilator, found it rather slow to fly for my taste but with the right weaponry of about 2-3 weapon combo and adjusting myself with its slower maneuvers, it can be quite deadly, had an awesome moment where I was trying to stay afloat and alive and some NPC with its ship shot a reaper at my behind while I was dealing with about 2-4 ships in front of me and somehow I clumsily but gracefully managed to turn my broadside of the ship around with a whirlwind-esque maneuver and only during then realized and saw how close the torpedo flew past the side of my ship and IIRC, it hit one of the hostile's own ships. After that I eventually dealt with the attacking ships and those who fled were just too fast to catch up with seemingly along the lines of an ancient "Battlestar WithMcClumsyCaptain". :D One of my most recent "Woah!" moments that taught me how to barely move away just enough from a possibly-detrimental projectile while flying a brick because after that I've done the same or similar trick a few times now to dodge away.

The whole scenario is a bit of a grey haze to me as I was frantically checking things like health of hostile ships, my CR levels and hull points, switching weapon groups, checking if the cooldown has gone away, then aiming and firing at hostiles and I can honestly tell that when I say that 80-95% of the time I don't know what ship is shooting at me as I'm just too focused on destroying the hostile ships that all I see basically are small to large red blobs, guesstimating their speed, trajectory and firing at the right spot liberally.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 05:01:04 AM by Drokkath »
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Death_Silence_66

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Any ETA on an 8.1 update?
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Ryu116

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Any ETA on an 8.1 update?

Any mods for 0.8a version works with 0.8.1a version.  I am able to run this mod with Starsector 0.8.1a without any problems.  So go ahead try it with Starsector 0.8.1a.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 06:03:32 PM by Ryu116 »
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Drokkath

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Aye, can confirm that also. Took a quick look at weapons and ships .csv files to compare with the new update's .csv files and didn't notice anything changed aside from the fact that why bloody heck is supplies/rec and supplies/mo still arse-backwards? ??? Let me demonstrate, default placement:

Spoiler
name,id,designation,system id,fleet pts,hitpoints,armor rating,max flux,8/6/5/4%,flux dissipation,ordnance points,fighter bays,max speed,acceleration,deceleration,max turn rate,turn acceleration,mass,shield type,defense id,shield arc,shield upkeep,shield efficiency,phase cost,phase upkeep,min crew,max crew,cargo,fuel,fuel/ly,range,max burn,base value,cr %/day,CR to deploy,peak CR sec,CR loss/sec,supplies/rec,supplies/mo,hints,breakProb,minPieces,maxPieces,number

Hammerhead,hammerhead,Destroyer,ammofeed,10,5000,500,4200,4167,250,95,,90,60,40,30,60,400,FRONT,,300,0.4,0.8,,,50,100,100,60,2,30,9,20000,5,12,360,0.25,8,8,,0.5,2,3,300
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TUP's placement:

Spoiler
name,id,designation,system id,fleet pts,hitpoints,armor rating,max flux,8/6/5/4%,flux dissipation,ordnance points,fighter bays,max speed,acceleration,deceleration,max turn rate,turn acceleration,mass,shield type,defense id,shield arc,shield upkeep,shield efficiency,phase cost,phase upkeep,min crew,max crew,cargo,fuel,fuel/ly,range,max burn,base value,supplies/rec,supplies/mo,cr %/day,CR to deploy,peak CR sec,CR loss/sec,hints,breakProb,minPieces,maxPieces,number

Hermit,tup_hermit,Utility Ship,burndrive,11,3500,850,2750,0,225,95,1,80,50,25,25,30,400,FRONT,,90,0.3,0.5,,,25,75,100,150,3,60,8,30000,10,10,5,12,240,0.25,,0.5,2,2,40
[close]

It's just annoying to move that around or make sense at first, I originally when making a super hermit for my own use I spent hours trying to find the damn issue until I went "Argh, there's my problem!", you see I was confused and climbing up the walls because I didn't know initially why my combat readiness stuff and supplies to repair and their "decay" rate being at bonkers numbers as I was using default game's placement and TUP's Hermit data placement! :D
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 02:55:44 AM by Drokkath »
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For I dipt in to the future, far as my gazer eye could see; Saw the vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be.
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