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Author Topic: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?  (Read 7903 times)

oranoron

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I expect a legitimate answer. Failure to deliver one will result is steep fines.

Seriously though. I am bored of the vanilla ships currently but after checking out your mods I literally cannot be bothered to even try playing with them. I would literally need to rebalance nearly every ship and weapon combo to make the game playable and redo it every time one of you updated.

Seriously, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Zero self control. Zero capacity for coordination or to form a standardize cost format. Just one big self gratificationfest.
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sirboomalot

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 07:56:26 PM »

They seemed pretty balanced to me. Have you seen Uomoz's compilation?
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oranoron

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 08:02:18 PM »

Yes and they most definitely are not balanced against vanilla and not very well against each other either.

I am just in a really bad mood tonight already so I am likely being overly nit picky. 
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LazyWizard

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 08:04:36 PM »

Could you give some examples of what you've found unbalanced? I've found the mods on this forum very well balanced.

Most mod factions differentiate themselves by focusing on one aspect of combat at the expense of another (for example, Antediluvians have lots of weapons but no shields, and Thule Legacy ships are extremely powerful but glacially slow). Once you've learned their weakness, you can design strategies to combat them.
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sirboomalot

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 08:06:38 PM »

Uomoz is as vanilla balanced as the mods get, as far as I know. They all seem pretty well balanced to me, though if you noticed something in particular you could probably speak up on the thread. Some of the more powerful IF weapons just got nerfed through that.
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K-64

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 08:08:45 PM »

Actually, I'd say you're being downright aggressive. The reason I'm responding so strongly is because to be frank, I'm rather offended. I, and many others have tried their utmost to keep their mods balanced, and then you come in, and start raving on about how I and they "should be ashamed", without even giving the slightest bit of constructive criticism?  I'm sorry, but that just isn't right. If you have a legitimate grievance with a mod, post on the thread where they've gone "wrong" in your view, not go off on a rant denouncing every single modder just because you're in a strop.

To Alex/moderators, if that post went too far with the aggression, then I apologise for that, but not the message.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 10:33:15 PM by K-64 »
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oranoron

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 08:09:31 PM »

Could you give some examples of what you've found unbalanced? I've found the mods on this forum very well balanced.

Most mod factions differentiate themselves by focusing on one aspect of combat at the expense of another (for example, Antediluvians have lots of weapons but no shields, and Thule Legacy ships are extremely powerful but glacially slow). Once you've learned their weakness, you can design strategies to combat them.

I think the problem was I got stomped a dozen times in a row before I could even afford my second ship, was already in a terrible mood and do not think that kiting my way around the system bending over backwards to get off to a decent start while spending days reloading saves every time I get caught by something I can't possibly beat in a hyper crowded system is good design. It is simply far to much effort to get started in that environment.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 08:11:04 PM by oranoron »
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sirboomalot

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 08:15:07 PM »

What faction did you start with? Sounds as if it wasn't so much a balance problem as it was a problem finding a fleet that didn't outnumber you. You usually want to head towards the pirate area to find some smaller fleets to defeat, or get a few fleets from opposing factions to kill each other off a bit and then head in for a lone survivor.
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oranoron

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 08:21:51 PM »

The Interstellar Federation. My biggest complaint balance wise is the regenning health phase ships of the shadow yards.
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sirboomalot

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 08:24:56 PM »

The shadow yards aren't a part of Uomoz's compilation.

Edit: Actually, yes they are, but they do not have a phase ship. The ship you mean is from a mod that isn't a part of the compilation. The ship you seem to have run into is from the shadow order.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 08:29:55 PM by sirboomalot »
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oranoron

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 08:38:42 PM »

I would also like to ad that the Thule Legacy Viking support frigate and their bulwark srms are to much to handle early game as well.

I don't know if these factions would be balanced in mid to late game but early game is painful to the point I don't find it worth playing.
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sdmike1

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 08:43:40 PM »

While i agree this would  be very nice, each mod maker has their own universe and they balance it within that :)

LazyWizard

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 08:57:16 PM »

I would also like to ad that the Thule Legacy Viking support frigate and their bulwark srms are to much to handle early game as well.

I don't know if these factions would be balanced in mid to late game but early game is painful to the point I don't find it worth playing.

This is an excellent example of what I meant by learning effective strategies. The Bulwark SRM has three attributes you should note: it deals frag damage, it is tagged as point defense, and its rate-of-fire is high enough it will run dry in only 20 seconds. All three of these can be found in the Codex, so you could look at it and realize an Annihilator barrage every few seconds will distract the SRMs until their ammo runs out, or a single frigate could tank the entire battery on its shield with no problem (frag does only 25% damage to all defenses aside from hull). :)

The Viking is powerful, yes, and you shouldn't try to take it on in the very early game (much like with the Tri-Tach frigates, though not quite as bad). Unfortunately, unless you've looked at the Codex the only way to find this out is a very painful first-hand lesson.
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Kurzak

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 08:59:33 PM »

I expect a legitimate answer. Failure to deliver one will result is steep fines.

Seriously, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Zero self control. Zero capacity for coordination or to form a standardize cost format. Just one big self gratificationfest.

 Honestly, I laughed for a minute straight. Thank-you for that :) Ya I get mad like that sometimes when I game so I totally get this post.

 But since you created this thread I want to send out a little query. How do people feel about the balance of the Neutrino in Uomoz's Corvus? With utmost respect for the creativity of the mod creator, I would just like to know how other people feel about the balance. My experience with them has always felt really unusual and quite one sided. Perhaps I need to play with them more but I feel like when I'm Neutrino I can't lose because frankly, I rarely take damage. I'll provide more specifics if other people are interested in discussing it.

Edit: If the discussion goes into too much detail I'll probably move it to the Neutrino forum thread. At this point though, I'm not entirely convinced it isn't just my problem rather than balance.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 09:02:25 PM by ProwlingMule »
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oranoron

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Re: Why Can None Of You Balance Your Custom Factions To Some Kind Of Standard?
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 09:09:48 PM »

I would also like to ad that the Thule Legacy Viking support frigate and their bulwark srms are to much to handle early game as well.

I don't know if these factions would be balanced in mid to late game but early game is painful to the point I don't find it worth playing.

This is an excellent example of what I meant by learning effective strategies. The Bulwark SRM has three attributes you should note: it deals frag damage, it is tagged as point defense, and its rate-of-fire is high enough it will run dry in only 20 seconds. All three of these can be found in the Codex, so you could look at it and realize an Annihilator barrage every few seconds will distract the SRMs until their ammo runs out, or a single frigate could tank the entire battery on its shield with no problem (frag does only 25% damage to all defenses aside from hull). :)

The Viking is powerful, yes, and you shouldn't try to take it on in the very early game (much like with the Tri-Tach frigates, though not quite as bad). Unfortunately, unless you've looked at the Codex the only way to find this out is a very painful first-hand lesson.

Also you really should not assume that even if I do read the codex I will always have access to the items and ships I will need to counter any ships I read about there early game.

It is literally like you don't understand the concept of opportunity cost. In the crowded system environment due to well, the game not being finished enough to put any distance between these factions there is simply too much to have to deal with all at once with limited early game resources. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 09:11:50 PM by oranoron »
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