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Author Topic: PS4 and the future of gaming  (Read 20175 times)

Gaizokubanou

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2013, 10:05:33 AM »

7970 has clear edge in value when compared to 680, but not in performance.

Unless you had different idea of "eats for breakfast" expression :P

But yes, Nvidia's pricing this generation is going FUBAR.
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hadesian

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2013, 10:32:27 AM »

7970 has clear edge in value when compared to 680, but not in performance.

Unless you had different idea of "eats for breakfast" expression :P

But yes, Nvidia's pricing this generation is going FUBAR.
My Matrix HD 7970 oc'd to 1.1GHz (easily doable on any 7970) will beat a 680 pretty easily, even with tesselation that's optimized for Nvidia on the Unigine bench.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/10104_463611413697686_2012243354_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/479749_463602610365233_774867095_n.jpg
Those are with +80 mhz OCs, but you can kinda see where I'm coming from there. I'll be damned if I can find the stock clocked benchmarks...

That, and in order to find a card which will be able to OC like mine, you need to spend about £100-200 more and even then most of them are locked voltages - not mine! Mine is built for liquid nitrogen cooling. Tis crazy. The only ones I know aren't are MSI's Power Edition and Lightning Edition stuff, and they don't make a 4GB version so you'll lose out against me in surround gaming too - did I mention I can handle six displays natively? Nvidia has nothing to match the 7970 at that pricepoint.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 10:35:22 AM by Xareh »
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2013, 12:09:44 PM »

I'll be damned if I can find the stock clocked benchmarks...

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_680_review,1.html

One thing to note is that it's an old benchmarks (only way to find vanilla card comparisons without OC) and hence driver support is behind, but this applies for both cards (albeit to varying degrees).
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hadesian

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2013, 12:17:12 PM »

I'll be damned if I can find the stock clocked benchmarks...

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_680_review,1.html

One thing to note is that it's an old benchmarks (only way to find vanilla card comparisons without OC) and hence driver support is behind, but this applies for both cards (albeit to varying degrees).
This has to be prior never settle. It makes no sense the 7970 would lose at 2560x1600 - it has 1GB more GDDR5, so it SHOULD perform better. If they pulled the excuse of 'we're running the 4GB version' then I can ask they redo the tests with the 6GB 7970, since otherwise that's not really fair.

Plus, my card is faaaar from vanilla. It's about as non reference as you get. I was referencing the fact we also did stock clock benches on Unigine and I won there too.
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2013, 12:31:05 PM »

This has to be prior never settle. It makes no sense the 7970 would lose at 2560x1600 - it has 1GB more GDDR5, so it SHOULD perform better. If they pulled the excuse of 'we're running the 4GB version' then I can ask they redo the tests with the 6GB 7970, since otherwise that's not really fair.

That is release spec 680 review (NOT 4GB version).  Also what do you mean by "this has to be prior never settle"?
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arcibalde

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2013, 03:05:13 AM »

It makes no sense the 7970 would lose at 2560x1600 - it has 1GB more GDDR5, so it SHOULD perform better. If they pulled the excuse of 'we're running the 4GB version' then I can ask they redo the tests with the 6GB 7970, since otherwise that's not really fair.
Errrr dude, that GTX680 have "only" 2gigs of vram. So... you know...  ;D  It's just better than ATI...
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hadesian

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2013, 08:21:25 AM »

This has to be prior never settle. It makes no sense the 7970 would lose at 2560x1600 - it has 1GB more GDDR5, so it SHOULD perform better. If they pulled the excuse of 'we're running the 4GB version' then I can ask they redo the tests with the 6GB 7970, since otherwise that's not really fair.

That is release spec 680 review (NOT 4GB version).  Also what do you mean by "this has to be prior never settle"?
Prior as in AMD found a shader deficiency in their drivers, fixed them and squeezed like 15 frames more into everything. Never Settle was the driver 12.11 that fixed this and basically gave AMD this crazy edge over Nvidia and... yeah.
So, here on Anandtech we have reference cards with a lot of comparisons in benchmarks
Except almost all manufactures provide factory overclocks to 1GHz, which makes this chart more applicable

It makes no sense the 7970 would lose at 2560x1600 - it has 1GB more GDDR5, so it SHOULD perform better. If they pulled the excuse of 'we're running the 4GB version' then I can ask they redo the tests with the 6GB 7970, since otherwise that's not really fair.
Errrr dude, that GTX680 have "only" 2gigs of vram. So... you know...  ;D  It's just better than ATI...
Maybe that card on that rig on that test at that time. Try that argument again against the Unigine benchmark. Did I forget to mention tessellation runs better on Nvidia cards? There are also more than just one benchmark to prove that my card is just better than any GTX 680 in existence - prior to Titan, it was the best single GPU card money could possibly buy. And if it wasn't, you could overclock it to 1.3GHz on air to fix that. It was beating the 680 and such even when they were overclocked and I was stock clocked. I haven't even fully accounted for CPU bottlenecking - I'm OC'ing to 4.5GHz on my 3570K soon with a liquid cooling setup, and then I'll rerun and squeeze maybe 10 or 15 more frames.
That and you've also proved you've got no idea how resolution works. Resolution needs VRAM. More VRAM means better frames and such in multi monitor or high resolution monitor setups. You know what had more VRAM? The 7970. You know - the one designed to run 3 to 6 displays from one card with Eyefinity? Go figure!
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2013, 08:30:26 AM »

So, here on Anandtech we have reference cards with a lot of comparisons in benchmarks
Except almost all manufactures provide factory overclocks to 1GHz, which makes this chart more applicable

The links you provided speak the same tune man, 7970 slightly underperforming at release spec but selling at a great price, and once they boost it up it competes just fine but then it can no longer claim the pricing edge as GHz edition are sold at similar pricing to 680.
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hadesian

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2013, 08:41:28 AM »

So, here on Anandtech we have reference cards with a lot of comparisons in benchmarks
Except almost all manufactures provide factory overclocks to 1GHz, which makes this chart more applicable

The links you provided speak the same tune man, 7970 slightly underperforming at release spec but selling at a great price, and once they boost it up it competes just fine but then it can no longer claim the pricing edge as GHz edition are sold at similar pricing to 680.
They're really not. You can find for instance an XFX GHz edition at the pricepoint of a GTX 670. You can find an absolute top end R7970 Lightning Edition from MSI for little more than the plain jane GTX 680 Twin Frozr OC and this is just one retailer too! Here's the pricing for various 7970s on OcUK - a very well regarded e-tailer of computery stuff. Here's their pricing for various 680s. Need I say anything more?
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hadesian

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2013, 08:49:57 AM »

But in other news too, due to the AMD based design of the PS4 - particularly in the X86-64 CPU - Ubisoft has said it makes more sense to port from PC - in other words, PC superiority will be even more apparent
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2013, 08:55:03 AM »

So, here on Anandtech we have reference cards with a lot of comparisons in benchmarks
Except almost all manufactures provide factory overclocks to 1GHz, which makes this chart more applicable

The links you provided speak the same tune man, 7970 slightly underperforming at release spec but selling at a great price, and once they boost it up it competes just fine but then it can no longer claim the pricing edge as GHz edition are sold at similar pricing to 680.
They're really not. You can find for instance an XFX GHz edition at the pricepoint of a GTX 670. You can find an absolute top end R7970 Lightning Edition from MSI for little more than the plain jane GTX 680 Twin Frozr OC and this is just one retailer too! Here's the pricing for various 7970s on OcUK - a very well regarded e-tailer of computery stuff. Here's their pricing for various 680s. Need I say anything more?

Yes.  WTF is up with that sample list of pricing for 680s?  That's some BS pricing, as that's as much pounds as they cost in dollars here in stateside (yeah, here in states we can get 680 for that same number except it would be in dollars).  The vanilla 680 would be $450 range, not $500+.  Either UK computer hardware industry has hate out for Nvidia or that's one biased sampling you got going there.
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arcibalde

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2013, 08:58:21 AM »

That and you've also proved you've got no idea how resolution works.
ROFL! Fine if you say so.

Resolution needs VRAM. More VRAM means better frames and such in multi monitor or high resolution monitor setups. You know what had more VRAM? The 7970. You know - the one designed to run 3 to 6 displays from one card with Eyefinity? Go figure!
Well now i would like to see how you card would die trying to pump out 6xdisplays in, let say, 2560x1600. VRAM means more room to store textures but that card do not have nearly enough raw power to do anything with it. So in Metro 2033 in 2560x1600 it scores 25fps. Imagine that on 5 more monitors. Slide show... And even if you halve resolution it would give slide show. So really... It only got that amount of RAM to make you pay more for it. Check it out, they (ati and nvidia) do things like that.
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hadesian

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2013, 09:17:33 AM »

So, here on Anandtech we have reference cards with a lot of comparisons in benchmarks
Except almost all manufactures provide factory overclocks to 1GHz, which makes this chart more applicable
That and you've also proved you've got no idea how resolution works.
ROFL! Fine if you say so.

Resolution needs VRAM. More VRAM means better frames and such in multi monitor or high resolution monitor setups. You know what had more VRAM? The 7970. You know - the one designed to run 3 to 6 displays from one card with Eyefinity? Go figure!
Well now i would like to see how you card would die trying to pump out 6xdisplays in, let say, 2560x1600. VRAM means more room to store textures but that card do not have nearly enough raw power to do anything with it. So in Metro 2033 in 2560x1600 it scores 25fps. Imagine that on 5 more monitors. Slide show... And even if you halve resolution it would give slide show. So really... It only got that amount of RAM to make you pay more for it. Check it out, they (ati and nvidia) do things like that.
Just.... no. You only proved what I said more. Yeah, I know Metro 2033 runs like a slideshow but it does that on a lot of systems - I personally get tremendously smooth FPS with only purple level loading. Yeah, I know my card can't handle six displays in 2560x1600, but if I'm making that kind of investment, I'll probably grab an extra one or two cards to buff up my performance. I said my card can support natively six displays - did I say that'd get good frames? No. It has that much GDDR5 because, oh, I don't know - maybe AMD has a proprietary tech called 'Eyefinity'. Go check it out, it's pretty cool stuff! You can handle about 30FPS in BF3 at ultra settings on the DCUII variant of my card at 1080p on three screens. All you've tried presenting me here is a worse case scenario - TTL did a quadfire with triple monitors and metro 2033 ran really well since IIRC Crossfire does add VRAM. I'm really quite sure if you took say quadfire 6GB cards Metro 2033 would be butter smooth - hell, you could probably add an extra few and it'd still be smooth! VRAM isn't added for no reason buddy, textures are getting bigger all the time and performance at 1080p is a crucial factor which is why cards usually come in with 2GB or more VRAM.

The links you provided speak the same tune man, 7970 slightly underperforming at release spec but selling at a great price, and once they boost it up it competes just fine but then it can no longer claim the pricing edge as GHz edition are sold at similar pricing to 680.
They're really not. You can find for instance an XFX GHz edition at the pricepoint of a GTX 670. You can find an absolute top end R7970 Lightning Edition from MSI for little more than the plain jane GTX 680 Twin Frozr OC and this is just one retailer too! Here's the pricing for various 7970s on OcUK - a very well regarded e-tailer of computery stuff. Here's their pricing for various 680s. Need I say anything more?

Yes.  WTF is up with that sample list of pricing for 680s?  That's some BS pricing, as that's as much pounds as they cost in dollars here in stateside (yeah, here in states we can get 680 for that same number except it would be in dollars).  The vanilla 680 would be $450 range, not $500+.  Either UK computer hardware industry has hate out for Nvidia or that's one biased sampling you got going there.
http://www.dabs.com/category/components-and-storage,graphics--tv-tuners-and-i-o,graphics-cards/11137-481830000
http://www.dabs.com/category/components-and-storage,graphics--tv-tuners-and-i-o,graphics-cards/11137-486360000
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_7?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&field-keywords=nvidia+gtx+680&sprefix=nvidia+%2Ccomputers%2C189&rh=n%3A340831031%2Ck%3Anvidia+gtx+680
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_4?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=7970+ghz+edition&sprefix=7970%2Celectronics%2C145&rh=n%3A560798%2Ck%3A7970+ghz+edition
Two more pricing lists. This isn't BS pricing. This is normal pricing. AMD axed the prices of Radeon cards a while back - get wiv da times! :P Everyone I know on pcpartpicker is also completely outraged at the pricing between a 670 and a 680 - you're basically paying for more CUDA cores and nothing more, so they recommend everyone to not make their mistake and grab a 7970 instead.
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2013, 09:44:55 AM »

I think you are not sorting through the pricing in your own links.  Every cheap pricing for 7970 is the regular version.  Ghz editions are priced very close to 680 (like $30 ~ $50 difference?).  Few 680 are priced ridiculously but we are not arguing about whether there are outliers towards high pricing point.

You just can't take the most offending pricing 680 (mostly EVGA), compare it with 7970 price, then bring in 7970 Ghz edition performance to claim complete wipeout victory for the AMD.  In a way you can physically do that, but wouldn't make it so.
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hadesian

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Re: PS4 and the future of gaming
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2013, 11:07:16 AM »

I think you are not sorting through the pricing in your own links.  Every cheap pricing for 7970 is the regular version.  Ghz editions are priced very close to 680 (like $30 ~ $50 difference?).  Few 680 are priced ridiculously but we are not arguing about whether there are outliers towards high pricing point.

You just can't take the most offending pricing 680 (mostly EVGA), compare it with 7970 price, then bring in 7970 Ghz edition performance to claim complete wipeout victory for the AMD.  In a way you can physically do that, but wouldn't make it so.
You're not getting it, are you? One or two of those cards are reference (normal) designs. Stuff like the Vapor-X or Windforce 3X are some of the most legendary coolers out there, and they are GHz editions. I'm not sorting through my pricing because I really have no need to - it speaks for itself. Did you know when my friend bought his Lighting 7970 the closest thing at that pricepoint to it on the green team was an upper end 670? My original point about the GHz edition cards is that they are no more expensive than an ordinary card - and if they are, like mine was, then there's probably a reason (best air cooler available currently) and even then you're only just scratching the prices of the 680s that can actually match up in pedigree. I'm rolling Matrix RoG, at that pricepoint you're rolling stock designs. Even then, 7970s are phenomenal overclockers - stick the core clock to 1GHz in MSI Afterburner, crank up the voltage a wee bit if need be, adjust the fan curve - boom. GHz edition performance. I'll say again, I'm not looking for the most expensive 680, I'm trying to show you that pretty much any 680 is monstrously and unjustifiably more expensive (and basic, worse performing etc.) while the 7970s are better performing, higher grade etc. etc. and much cheaper, usually by about £100
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