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Author Topic: Free discussion 54a: Missiles  (Read 13828 times)

Cosmitz

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Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« on: November 28, 2012, 01:35:47 AM »

I've been playing a lot of Starfarer these past months and i don't know if it's just me, but i find missiles to be near-useless compared to the other types of weapons. I can make a full energy or a full ballistic build, but i can't make a full missile build.

First problem is ammo. Even ballistics have enough ammo storage to engage multiple enemies before you have a problem with it running out. With missiles you mostly get enough for around two-three enemies, if you're conservative and don't make mistakes. And given how the enemies LOVE to raise shields at 95% flux right after you launch your Harpoon making it useless, ammo problems go even further.

Evasion. Given the AI's pro-skills in maneuvering ships, missiles, which can be avoided or atleast easily enough even by players with a tad of skill, end up missing more times than they hit if you want to use them as the actual homing devices that they are and not a ballistics counterpart like the Sabot. Let's not even go into Torpedoes which are plainly disappointing, and thats if you don't even count the 'nick of time' shield-up the AI does.

All around usability. Since i couldn't bare to play with missiles mostly this view comes from someone that faced down a lot of missiles and personally, minus startgame where that stray Harpoon can nick half your ship, i generally don't care at all for the huge amount of missiles flying at any particular time in a battle. Sure, i also play shield ships mostly, but i really should be fearing them more than i do currently. It just seems odd to care more about that one Heavy Blaster mounted on that one ship than a quarter of the whole armament of the enemy fleet. I only love Pilums since they drop like mad and cost 900 credits each if i'm not mistaken, making it sweet salvage, otherwise they just provide the background for the battle for me.

So, can we have a bit of a discussion on this topic, maybe i can be enlightened.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 01:37:35 AM by Cosmitz »
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arcibalde

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 01:44:37 AM »

I use missiles to soften up armor of ships when i have chance and that is when ship is overloading/venting. They are perfect in duels when you are both at almost max flux, then you lunch missiles/torpedo so it will raise shields and overload or you land a hit and then it's bye-bye armor. Missiles and torpedo are extremely powerful and dangerous when used in right moment. It's just that window of opportunity to use m/t are very small but if used successfully you devastate your opponent. So patience  ;D
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Cosmitz

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 01:56:22 AM »

I don't mind them being specialist weapons, used in specific situations, but then they get pushed to the same rank as ship systems. And the fact that there are ships with mostly missile-weaponslots make me believe that they were designed as an viable alternative to energy/ballistics and not necessarily complementary.
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arcibalde

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 02:09:22 AM »

Well, this game combine many ships it's not 1 on 1. So look at your fleet like ship with kinetic/energy/missile slots and their combination. So you have ships with bunch of kinetic and ships with bunch of missiles. Kinetic eat away shields and then missile blast armor and then kinetic eat away hull. Thing is you can use HE guns to eat armor but you can't destroy it in one go but missiles/torpedo can.
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mendonca

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 03:02:06 AM »

I couldn't play this game without missiles, to me they are extremely valuable.

Buying up a couple of Vigilances and outfitting them with just Pilums and PD lasers can provide BRILLIANT support in small engagements for a small cost. The fog of Pilums hunting down the enemy gives you a really nice advantage in engaging ships.

I've been playing with an Enforcer outfitted with 2 racks of salamanders and 2 packs of annihilators. The salamanders are a death-knell for all Hounds, and can be excellent shield-distractors against other ships - allowing you to either pound down their unprotected armor as they protect their engines - or take out their engines making them sitting ducks to close in.

Annihilators help you control the field as well, putting out enough ordnance to control how ships move and use their shields.

I can't speak highly enough of Harpoons, either, but you need to be careful about using them as they are wasted if they hit a shield - unless of course they force an overload - and then you can bring the pain with your supplementary ballistics / energy ordnance.

They are all pretty rubbish on their own, granted, but if used within their roles and as part of a wider plan they are AWESOME.
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Cosmitz

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 03:14:01 AM »

Hm, interesting premise. Maybe my addiction to play with 360 shields made me unaware of how hard it is for normal ships to manage directional damage. I can understand how the enemy might move their shield when facing missiles and allowing me a period of grace in their defences can come useful.

During a new playthrough i made i also saw the benefit of using missiles for PD distraction when fielding fighters, especially nonshielded ones.

I think my mistake might be to consider them direct damage instead of tools of attrition and distraction.
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Thaago

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 08:11:16 AM »

I agree you can't make a missile build - but its not at all because missiles are bad. They just have extremely narrow roles - if you don't have the right situation for a missiles, it won't do anything. The ballistic and energy weapons are much more flexible and can deal with any situation. Eg: Harpoons can only be fired at overloaded, venting, or 99% flux opponents (and even that isn't a good idea because of PD), but they then do heavy damage in that narrow window. I think the torpedoes are just right because half of threads talk about how disappointing they are, and the other half how overpowered.

I've been loving swarmers for anti-fighter work. OP cheap, tons of ammo, and a flux free way to just murder fighters. They also do pretty high damage against larger ships once you've stripped the armor.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 08:13:21 AM by Thaago »
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Jazwana

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 08:28:02 AM »

To the OP -  Missiles are not designed (and as you've posted, can't) destroy a fleet all by themselves.  They really can barely kill a ship (except perhaps torps) given an even fight.  That is not their strength nor purpose.

However, as others have posted, missiles excel in setting up conditions to destroy a fleet or kill a ship with ease.   By forcing an overload (harpoons) or enemy movement into weapon range (salamanders, pilums) they create a large combat edge for a small FP cost.
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VikingHaag

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 09:44:33 PM »

Vanilla missiles are kind of lackluster, i admit this.
But try out "More Weapons" and you'll see some good missiles.

My favourites are the "Barricade launcher". PD missiles that target other missiles and *** fighters? Yes please.
Also with mod ships you can set up some OP one trick ponies (8 reapers = either death or overload followed by death).
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kazi

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 03:52:42 AM »

imo missiles are the best weapons in the game. They will insta-kill anything with shields down.

Harpoons lose effectiveness against cruisers/capital ships simply because you can't unload enough in a short enough time. Use reapers instead.

If you want to see the power of missiles, try using this Conquest loadout: cyclone reaper launchers in the front, heavy autocannons/hellbore cannons on the side slots, 8xPD lasers, 2x heavy burst lasers, stabilized shields, hardened shields, advanced turret gyros, dedicated targeting core, rest capacitors, missile side slots empty. Set all weapons to autofire except the reapers. Elite crew helps keep flux down.

You can kill any capital ship/cruiser in less than 10 seconds typically with this loadout (exception is the Paragon with its anti-strike weapon fort shield). When you see an enemy capital, engage maneuvering jets, ram them, fire torpedoes at point blank, turn broadside. If they are somehow still standing, stay in your point-blank broadside until the maneuvering jets and reapers recharge, then face them again and launch.

You can do this to kill an Onslaught and take no damage (as long as you can briefly distract any escorts). Vessels of cruiser size and below pose no threat unless you are massively outnumbered (hellbore+HAC+reapers will overload and kill anything in range). Gets old pretty quickly, but is extremely effective.

Personally, I think the Conquest could use a bit of a nerf. It seems a little OP to be able to zip around the map like a frigate and be able to one-shot capitals with your torpedoes.
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Sonlirain

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 05:01:42 AM »

I had some succes with harpoons when fighting bombers (pihranas especially).

Just wait till they appear on the scanner and fire a volley of 1 missile per bomber and poof they're gone of badly damaged.
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Cycerin

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 11:21:05 AM »

Just try a Vigilance with expanded missile racks, ECCM, a Pilum, and at least 7 points into the missile skill. You can literally spam them and they will overwhelm almost any destroyer or frigate-sized vessel in the game.
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JT

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 01:13:05 PM »

I think what makes missiles great is not their general reliability, but how they can suddenly and surprisingly throw randomness into the situation.

I was in a standard Vigilance with the basic pulse cannon and Harpoon MRMs and went up against a larger hull whose specific type I can't remember. It unloaded a barrage at me that I managed to dodge or absorb on the shields, and then I returned fire with the pulse cannon. One of my earlier missiles that I had pretty much discounted as a loss came around beside me and impacted on the shields, maxing out the enemy's hard flux, so with a couple of follow-up pulses of my cannon the ship went into overload... at point blank range... with my missile tubes staring it in the face. And ever so slowly, those freshly launched missiles tracked it ever so malevolently as it tried ever so vainly to get away. And then, in the words of David Weber, it ceased to exist.

It was enough of a moment of pride and triumph that I cheered aloud in real life.
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DJ Die

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2012, 02:06:58 PM »

well i like to use torpedoes on Hyperion mainly because it likes to jump behind ships with frontal shields and either fry their engines or makes them panic and die anyway...
also annihilator pods are great on onslaught...you dont even need to use shields with them...
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Tacticalchutney

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Re: Free discussion 54a: Missiles
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2012, 04:03:22 PM »

Paragon with full Annihilators is amazing. You haven't lived till you've seen a group of about 6 dozen missiles hit the enemy. Just put them on auto fire. With so many missiles there is no need to be precise.
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