Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use  (Read 3513 times)

drhead

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile

I really hate how hardpoints work.  They are less of a hardpoint and more of a low-angle turret, and it really just feels floppy and hard to use.  I would much rather have the hardpoints fixed straight forward.  I prefer to lead my targets by a lot, wait for them to get in my line of fire, THEN shoot.  When I do this, it is very easy to be distracted by the hardpoints being all floppy.  Having hardpoints parallel at all times would be so much easier.  I mean, at least make hardpoint wiggle something we can toggle in-game.
Logged

Wyvern

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3803
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 09:33:04 PM »

Having played around with ships in mods that lack that wiggle room, as well as ships like the Onslaught that have completely fixed non-turning weapons, I think this is not a good idea.  Having a little bit of play in the arc makes it much easier to achieve precise aim against distant targets, especially for larger and slower-turning ships.
Logged
Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7225
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 09:51:00 PM »

I think it depends on the ship and how far apart the hardpoints are. The Hammerhead recently had its hardpoint angles doubled and I think it was a great improvement: before it couldn't focus both weapons on anything smaller than a destroyer at close range.
Logged

K-64

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1117
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 09:55:31 PM »

Plus realistically, hardpoints would have some degree of movability, for keeping things they're pointed in the general direction of in the firing line without having to rotate the entire ship. Especially useful for those ships that are a bit deficient in the manoeuvring department
Logged

Wyvern

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3803
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 10:10:19 PM »

I think it depends on the ship and how far apart the hardpoints are. The Hammerhead recently had its hardpoint angles doubled and I think it was a great improvement: before it couldn't focus both weapons on anything smaller than a destroyer at close range.

It did?  Nice!  I always hated trying to use that ship; I may have to give it another go now - I'd given up on it as not working for my play style, and thus hadn't even noticed the change.
Logged
Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Chancellor Meatsteak

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2013, 06:45:10 AM »

Welcome to the forums!

I don't feel the suggested change is strictly necessary, or will even accomplish what you want. Surely removing a little leeway from how precise you have to turn your ship would make it harder to aim and not easier? I never really noticed them being "floppy" either; in fact, one mod I played gave a ship two hardpoints with a fairly large arc which ran into problems because it turned out hardpoints turn extremely slowly. That said, if you pilot a ship and don't use mouse-strafing (where your ship faces the cursor and 'A' and 'D' are used for strafing instead of turning) for some reason I could see it causing slight problems if you are trying to shoot an enemy with your hardpoints while your mouse is somewhere else; but then the question becomes 'if you are using a ship with forward fixed hardpoints why exactly aren't you mouse-strafing?'

...The Hammerhead recently had its hardpoint angles doubled...

The change happened as of 0.52a, which was released in April of last year. I don't think "recently" is the right word.
Logged

Sproginator

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3592
  • Forum Ancient
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 08:25:34 AM »

Tbh, I disagree with this idea.

I tried modding a ship with 0 degree leeway harpoints to make a kind of broadside cruiser.

Let's just say the ship had its ass handed to itself by a small destroyer. The destroyer just hid in between the two firing arcs of the hardpoints and fired everything at one spot -_-'

I like the way the current game handles arcs, It's perfect :)
Logged
A person who's never made a mistake, never tried anything new
- Albert Einstein

As long as we don't quit, we haven't failed
- Jamie Fristrom (Programmer for Spiderman2 & Lead Developer for Energy Hook)

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7225
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2013, 09:24:35 AM »

...

...The Hammerhead recently had its hardpoint angles doubled...

The change happened as of 0.52a, which was released in April of last year. I don't think "recently" is the right word.

 :P I guess I'm just old. It was a good change though! :)
Logged

drhead

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2013, 06:50:22 PM »

Plus realistically, hardpoints would have some degree of movability, for keeping things they're pointed in the general direction of in the firing line without having to rotate the entire ship. Especially useful for those ships that are a bit deficient in the manoeuvring department

That might be it.  The ship I'm using is the Strike Hyperion, which can be considered to almost have too much maneuverability (seriously, try the Auxiliary Thrusters on it, it gets really hard to aim with it spinning that fast).  With it, I have to alternate between the two antimatter blasters anyway (trigger discipline is vital with the high cooldown of the AMB), so I'm lining my shot up again no matter what.  Having some predictability in where the other turret would be pointed would help to quickly follow up a shot.  Using mouse-strafing is generally not an option with this ship either, since that would make it harder to teleport away immediately after firing.

With cases like this, it really would be nice to have the option to just hit Caps Lock to lock hardpoints in the forward position.
Logged

Gothars

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4403
  • Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity.
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 07:21:16 PM »

Idea for a Hullmod:
Muzzle Velocity Booster: The range of all non missile/beam weapons is increased by 200su, but the necessary reinforcements on the mount reduce turret arcs by 50% and lock hardpoints straight ahead.

I love hullmods where the apparent back-draw can be turned into an advantage.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 07:49:40 PM by Gothars »
Logged
The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

Arranging holidays in an embrace with the Starsector is priceless.

DelicateTask

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 08:04:31 PM »

The ship I'm using is the Strike Hyperion, which can be considered to almost have too much maneuverability...so I'm lining my shot up again no matter what.  Having some predictability in where the other turret would be pointed would help to quickly follow up a shot.  Using mouse-strafing is generally not an option with this ship either, since that would make it harder to teleport away immediately after firing.

With cases like this, it really would be nice to have the option to just hit Caps Lock to lock hardpoints in the forward position.
Perhaps it could help, but perhaps you should just try modding the hardpoints to be fixed on the Hyperion and see if it even makes a difference. It seems to me like you're certain that this would improve things without having verified that it would make a significant impact on the effectiveness of your play style.
Logged

Sproginator

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3592
  • Forum Ancient
    • View Profile
Re: Remove the 'wiggle room' with hardpoints - make it easier to use
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 01:09:19 AM »

Idea for a Hullmod:
Muzzle Velocity Booster: The range of all non missile/beam weapons is increased by 200su, but the necessary reinforcements on the mount reduce turret arcs by 50% and lock hardpoints straight ahead.

I love hullmods where the apparent back-draw can be turned into an advantage.

Ooh, I do like this idea, Allowing for you to configure a destroyer to be a decent sniper :D
Logged
A person who's never made a mistake, never tried anything new
- Albert Einstein

As long as we don't quit, we haven't failed
- Jamie Fristrom (Programmer for Spiderman2 & Lead Developer for Energy Hook)