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Author Topic: Late-game additions  (Read 3808 times)

The Soldier

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Late-game additions
« on: October 01, 2012, 07:16:12 PM »

It doesn't SOUND complicated, as it appears to use things that are already in-game, but what about adding a fog-of-war during the campaign map?

Planet locations would be quiet obvious, as it's really hard to miss them, but fleets would be hidden from view until you got close enough.  The larger the fleet, the farther away an enemy could see it (depending on Fleet Points).  The AI would not see an enemy fleet until that certain distance as well.

TL:DR
The campaign map would be like one giant battle.  Scouts would have a role now, detect enemy locations and send in the big guns, and there's a hint of uncertainty as to where the enemy is as you traverse the map.
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Temjin

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2012, 07:36:22 PM »

My concern with this is that it would take you FOREVER to find the enemy fleets if you ventured away from the planets for a little while.

I mean, it's frustrating enough playing hide and seek during combat, I'd hate to do it on the campaign map...
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Morrokain

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2012, 08:11:50 PM »

I think this would be pretty cool and bring some depth to the campaign as long as it was balanced right. It would make pirate ambushes actually happen.

My concern with this is that it would take you FOREVER to find the enemy fleets if you ventured away from the planets for a little while.

I mean, it's frustrating enough playing hide and seek during combat, I'd hate to do it on the campaign map...

I usually find that sacrificing the one command point to send a light fighter squadron to a "recon" waypoint helps a great deal in both determining where an enemy fleet is likely to be moving and in what strength (i.e are there frigates too far from the pack that I can pick off before they can reach safety?) and also if positioned in a smart way able to pick off wounded stragglers with another command later on.
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hydremajor

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2012, 01:59:53 AM »

IMO

Makes fat fleets more gimped than they currently are
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maximilianyuen

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2012, 09:40:48 AM »

+1 from me.

for the campaign map adding  an astro belt for hide and seek will be great.

and scouting should always be a part of space battle too:)
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GUNINANRUNIN

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2012, 10:03:36 AM »

-1 Catching them is already hard enough now.
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Hyph_K31

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2012, 10:34:58 AM »

-1, ditto.

And I would expect that in with the current technology starfarer alludes to, picking up a single ship from the other end on the solar system would be a cake walk.

If anything, smaller ships (and fleets made predominantly up of smaller ships) would have a tougher time detecting bigger ships.
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Gothars

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2012, 11:16:14 AM »

Mh, exploration is a promised feature, and I certainly hope that refers to more than just visiting new systems. If you can see everything of relevance on the map the moment you come into a new system that leaves little room for exploration.

Besides, once other means of acquiring wealth than combat are implemented, catching fleets will not be as important as it is now. And maybe by that time enemy fleets will stop flying around randomly and behave with purpose, like raiding/protecting trade-routes or mining outpost, so finding them would not be left up to chance.

Anyway, the system view still needs a lot of work and thinking (and I believe it will get that, there are certainly some placeholders). So maybe it's a bit early to talk about it like it's a finalized aspect of the game.
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The Soldier

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2012, 12:05:29 PM »

It's kinda hard to miss a hulking Dominator with a frigate.  Besides, the larger the fleet, the harder it will be to detect.  Adds a bit of strategy to the campaign map.
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Hyph_K31

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2012, 02:16:52 PM »

It's kinda hard to miss a hulking Dominator with a frigate.  Besides, the larger the fleet, the harder it will be to detect.  Adds a bit of strategy to the campaign map.

Say you have a lasher and afore mentioned dominator, which do you reckon has the better sensors?

At Gothars:

Yeah, that does make sense. It would centainly be interesting to sus out trade routes and the like.

Although, at the very least I would expect any ship in starfarer to be able to detect anything larger than an asteroid.

Edit: that is to say when entering a new system.
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Morrokain

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2012, 08:28:26 PM »

-1 Catching them is already hard enough now.

What I would say is that I prefer fog of war to lay down ambushes and for the aspect of exploration and the like but that also means that there would have to be a way to slow down smaller fleets as well so that there would be a way for larger fleets to catch up in special circumstances.

It's kinda hard to miss a hulking Dominator with a frigate.  Besides, the larger the fleet, the harder it will be to detect.  Adds a bit of strategy to the campaign map.

Say you have a lasher and afore mentioned dominator, which do you reckon has the better sensors?

At Gothars:

Yeah, that does make sense. It would centainly be interesting to sus out trade routes and the like.

Although, at the very least I would expect any ship in starfarer to be able to detect anything larger than an asteroid.

Edit: that is to say when entering a new system.

Unless there would be certain systems where interference of some kind would block sensors and require more targeted exploration. Also, anomalies could exist where you know something is there but are not completely sure what.

This would also lead to fleets (especially pirate groups) to invest in technology that would block scanners and allow for a certain amount of cloaking.

At the end of the day, it is realistic to say that if scanners are good enough to detect fleets or anything bigger than an asteroid at such long ranges then piracy simply would not exist. A merchant fleet would see the pirates coming from so far away they could either escape or radio a patrol. If the patrol is too thin then trading in that area would completely stop as pirates would not only know every merchant fleet that entered but also their exact military strength.
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Morrokain

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2012, 08:31:48 PM »

Mh, exploration is a promised feature, and I certainly hope that refers to more than just visiting new systems. If you can see everything of relevance on the map the moment you come into a new system that leaves little room for exploration.

Besides, once other means of acquiring wealth than combat are implemented, catching fleets will not be as important as it is now. And maybe by that time enemy fleets will stop flying around randomly and behave with purpose, like raiding/protecting trade-routes or mining outpost, so finding them would not be left up to chance.

Anyway, the system view still needs a lot of work and thinking (and I believe it will get that, there are certainly some placeholders). So maybe it's a bit early to talk about it like it's a finalized aspect of the game.
^ this  :)
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Hyph_K31

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2012, 10:30:56 PM »

This guy ^, knows his stuff.

But the last thing I want to see is a "light in the dark" situation. When I said asteroid, I didn't really mean the ones we come across in combat, rather the huge mammoth ones. What I would expect upon jumping into a system would be this:

A complete planetary map of the system, barring afore mentioned anomalies. I would not expect to able able to see where all th stations are, unless they have a becon (the pros and cons of slapping a becon on a station in a pirate ridden system is debatable). As for fleets, I'm not so sure.

I would certainly expect to be able to see the larger fleets, but perhaps nots the teeny tiny ones. But I also wouldn't want them to be able to creep up on you, unless you're in a nebula or something. That said, it wouldn't be opposed to the smaller fleets not appearing on the system map, and only being visible when they are within the range of your more sensitive sensors.

This could also open up the possibility of something like 'super-duper advanced sensors' that enables something like sonar.
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Gothars

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2012, 06:13:21 AM »

I would certainly expect to be able to see the larger fleets, but perhaps nots the teeny tiny ones. But I also wouldn't want them to be able to creep up on you, unless you're in a nebula or something. That said, it wouldn't be opposed to the smaller fleets not appearing on the system map, and only being visible when they are within the range of your more sensitive sensors.

I like the fleet size dependent detection. It goes well with a very gradual fog of war. Could look something like this (just less ugly):

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Hyph_K31

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Re: Late-game additions
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2012, 11:10:26 AM »

Mmmmph...

Seems a bit to much like the before mentioned "light in the dark" scenario. I'm not at all sure that this is something I would be happy with. But, I suppose we shall see.
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