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Author Topic: NEW C2 (Command & Control) Assignment suggestion  (Read 2357 times)

mercy

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NEW C2 (Command & Control) Assignment suggestion
« on: September 29, 2012, 12:35:46 AM »

C2 (Command & Control) Assignment in latest beta (see time of this post) is currently a mess. Unusable. Ship assignment commands are working only sporadically - once out of 10 tries - to attack or defend.  Here is a straightforward, logical way how it should work:

TAB keypress

1. On C2 MAP Left Mouse click on command ship in my fleet
2. Left Mouse click on enemy ship
3. Menu comes up with choices:
Harass
Strike
Defend
... etc
4. assignment Strike is selected
5. Arrow leading from my ship now points to enemy ship

6. On C2 MAP Left Mouse click on a second frigate in my fleet
repeat from point 2. to 5.

TAB keypress

Currently this menu doesn't work, like it has a built in random function to not carry out commands properly?  Any ideas?
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Gothars

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Re: NEW C2 (Command & Control) Assignment suggestion
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2012, 03:20:57 AM »

Ship assignment commands are working only sporadically - once out of 10 tries - to attack or defend.

Assignments work fine every time. You probably have some misconception about the system that you are not aware off. I would guess you are trying to give ships orders they are not equipped to fulfill.

In Starfarer you don't have to choose which ship does a job, you only give the assignment and the AI chooses a suitable ship(s) to carry it out. So your first step doesn't apply.

1. On C2 MAP Left Mouse click on enemy ship
2. Menu comes up with choices:
Harass
Strike
Defend
... etc
3. assignment Strike is selected
4. Arrow leading from nearest strike capable ship or bomber wing to enemy ship

Anyway, welcome to the forum :)
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blamatron

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Re: NEW C2 (Command & Control) Assignment suggestion
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2012, 06:26:52 AM »

4. Arrow leading from nearest strike capable ship or bomber wing to enemy ship
I have a problem that it's not necessarily the nearest or most convenient ship that gets the assignment, but
sometimes it'll be a ship alll the way across themap, or already engaged.
Not sure if this is the same problem mercy has, but it is my biggest gripe with the game currently.
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The Soldier

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Re: NEW C2 (Command & Control) Assignment suggestion
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2012, 08:12:10 AM »

Depends on whether or not you selected an enemy ship or just the map, but both work the same way.  All Strike ships (anything really with a torpedo, AM blaster, bomb bay, etc.) and Support Fighters (currently just the Longbow as of now) will meet at that point (if on a map) or attack the enemy ship (if selected an enemy ship).

Best to rally your strike vessels in one point, then make a "Strike" assignment to an enemy ship.  Bombers are always better an a big iron fist. :)
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rex

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Re: NEW C2 (Command & Control) Assignment suggestion
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2012, 07:06:46 PM »

Depends on whether or not you selected an enemy ship or just the map, but both work the same way.  All Strike ships (anything really with a torpedo, AM blaster, bomb bay, etc.) and Support Fighters (currently just the Longbow as of now) will meet at that point (if on a map) or attack the enemy ship (if selected an enemy ship).

Best to rally your strike vessels in one point, then make a "Strike" assignment to an enemy ship.  Bombers are always better an a big iron fist. :)

Really wish harass had a slightly augmented mechanic. Like, 'Drive' and 'Draw'.  So you could target a ship, and have lighter stuff either attack it on the opposite side of a drive point(ideally pushing towards an anvil) or draw where they run in till they get a high flux and retreat towards a point(pulling ships towards a waiting capital).  Heck just being able to tell ships you want them to flank from a given direction would be peachy keen, and would help eliminate issues with strike craft blocking support fire.
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mercy

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Re: NEW C2 (Command & Control) Assignment suggestion
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2012, 03:22:43 AM »

Okay, I got it know. Starfarer doesn't use the method of MSWindows
"click here and a new magic window pops up to make your wishes true".

Still:  selecting 1 ship with the left mouse or selecting multiple ships with SHIFT+LMB or rectangle selection would be a reasonable method for Starfarer, then give orders. Automatically Starfarer should list available commands on the left or right if one or multiple ships are selected: Harass, strike, Engage etc..

OR:

Select a BiG ship of the enemy and make Starfarer pop up a window listing all your ships - represented by tiny icons and ship names - recolor already ordered ships with maybe red, available ships - waiting for command - in green or blue and allow the user to SHIFT+LMB select.

Best solution would be - in case of a large flotilla - a simple rectangle select. Give the user the option to zoom out the C2-screen with the mouse wheel (make the code know which screen is currently on and mouse wheel-zoom always available), select all ships on the left side with the rectangle and command them to swarm the BiG enemy ship and bring the Wrath of God onto the bastard!

If you wish to retain "fleet points" simply make as many ships follow commands from the rectangle selection as many "fleet points" the player has. Displaying: "Not enough fleet points. Capture a Comm Relay to get more."

OR:

Give the player the ability to assign Squadron Leaders in the flotilla. Highlight all Squadron Leaders on C2 so the player can select them. All available ships try to follow their Squadron Leader or the nearest one and execute the commands given to Squadron leaders too(Harass, Engage, Strike, etc..). Like in real Navy. Allow grouping ships to Squadrons on the Fleet screen. This will help with the chaos to manage big flotillas.
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Gothars

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Re: NEW C2 (Command & Control) Assignment suggestion
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2012, 05:18:06 AM »

Okay, I got it know. Starfarer doesn't use the method of MSWindows
"click here and a new magic window pops up to make your wishes true".

Still:  selecting 1 ship with the left mouse or selecting multiple ships with SHIFT+LMB or rectangle selection would be a reasonable method for Starfarer, then give orders. Automatically Starfarer should list available commands on the left or right if one or multiple ships are selected: Harass, strike, Engage etc..

OR:

Select a BiG ship of the enemy and make Starfarer pop up a window listing all your ships - represented by tiny icons and ship names - recolor already ordered ships with maybe red, available ships - waiting for command - in green or blue and allow the user to SHIFT+LMB select.

Best solution would be - in case of a large flotilla - a simple rectangle select. Give the user the option to zoom out the C2-screen with the mouse wheel (make the code know which screen is currently on and mouse wheel-zoom always available), select all ships on the left side with the rectangle and command them to swarm the BiG enemy ship and bring the Wrath of God onto the bastard!

If you wish to retain "fleet points" simply make as many ships follow commands from the rectangle selection as many "fleet points" the player has. Displaying: "Not enough fleet points. Capture a Comm Relay to get more."

OR:

Give the player the ability to assign Squadron Leaders in the flotilla. Highlight all Squadron Leaders on C2 so the player can select them. All available ships try to follow their Squadron Leader or the nearest one and execute the commands given to Squadron leaders too(Harass, Engage, Strike, etc..). Like in real Navy. Allow grouping ships to Squadrons on the Fleet screen. This will help with the chaos to manage big flotillas.

I totally see where you are coming from mercy, that is classic RTS. You're used to having full control over your units, telling them where to go and what to do.
Well, Starfarer is not that kind of game, you have to shake that conception if you want to enjoy it. As opposed to RTS your units behave actually intelligent, they basically know what to do (aside from some imperfections like blamatron experienced). You at most tell them what you want done and they will work out who and how to do it.  This has (to my knowledge) two reasons:

- so you can fully concentrate on piloting your flagship

- so ships don't have to compromise between exactly following your orders and doing what is smart, e.g. keeping distance to an enemy, outrunning missiles, retreating to vent, flank an enemy etc.

In earlier versions there even was an RTS-like command scheme, but Alex (lead developer) deemed it unsuitable (I think the term was awkward) for SF and replaced it with the objective system.


On a more concrete note: If you want "to swarm the BiG enemy ship and bring the Wrath of God onto the bastard!" simple click it and choose "Engage", all your unoccupied ships will attack it.
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