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[xenoargh]

A Flux Converter allows for sequential, automatic venting of Flux Capacitors over time. 

For 25%* of total capacity and 5 / 10 / 20 / 40 OPs*, 5%* of current Hard Flux is converted into Soft Flux per second, allowing ships to regenerate their Hard Flux without Venting.

*Subject to balance testing.

[Thaago]

This would be a very game changing hullmod. On the one hand its expensive and the effect not huge numerically. On the other hand it would allow shield tanks to bypass pretty much their only weakness, that they need to lower shields to vent flux. I'm neutral on this one, what do others think?

[Gothars]

I don't see much good in changes that encourage defensive, passive behavior.

[Alex]

Side note: there is (will be? "is" in dev build) a skill perk that does basically this.

[JaytheJuggernaut]

How would the balancing work for ships with fortress shield though? I may be completely missing something important, if I am I apologize. This would add to fortress shields' effect hugely.

[Alex]

How would the balancing work for ships with fortress shield though? I may be completely missing something important, if I am I apologize. This would add to fortress shields' effect hugely.

Good question The way the perk works is it allows hard flux dissipation while shields are up, at a percentage of the normal rate. Systems like the fortress shield or the phase cloak (which isn't *really* a system, but it's implemented as one...) turn off hard flux dissipation altogether, and that's not affected by the perk.

[xenoargh]

Seems that would make Fortress Shield even more marginal than it already is, though.  It's already near the top of my list of Systems that are barely worth using.

The only Vanilla ship that has it equipped is the last ship I'd have put it on, because if it's in a situation that's so desperate it has to turn it on and lose the ability to trade DPS, it's dead anyhow, because there aren't any capships nearby to save it and it's probably surrounded.  It just delays the inevitable; it doesn't really buy enough time to matter, though, in my experience, because you kill the Astral near the end of meeting engagements.  In the hands of the player, it's a little less iffy, but it's still iffy.

It'd make more sense if Fortress Shield allowed for Hard Flux to be dissipated, but restricted weapons and movement; basically, if you're a capship-level Flux creator, unless taking catastrophic levels of damage, you're practically invulnerable but you can't move or shoot.  The only problem with that is that then you're looking at endless battle scenarios; so it could be stuck on a timer.  I'll try this out, see how it works; this is one of the Systems that I just can't justify sticking on "new hires" atm.

[JaytheJuggernaut]

How would the balancing work for ships with fortress shield though? I may be completely missing something important, if I am I apologize. This would add to fortress shields' effect hugely.

Good question The way the perk works is it allows hard flux dissipation while shields are up, at a percentage of the normal rate. Systems like the fortress shield or the phase cloak (which isn't *really* a system, but it's implemented as one...) turn off hard flux dissipation altogether, and that's not affected by the perk.

Ah, thanks for responding. I was under the impression that it was like taking hits to the shield, in terms of flux generation. Neat to know it's turned off completely. Also, I completely forgot about the phase changes. If this had worked normally, you could in theory stay infinitely phased with enough vents....Glad to know you had this solved before it was an issue! 

[xenoargh]

Tried this out:

CSV:

Code

Fortress Shield,fortressshield,,,0.025,,,,,,1,35,1,20,,,,,TRUE,,TRUE,TRUE,,graphics/icons/hullsys/fortress_shield.png

Code changes:

Spoiler

Code

package data.shipsystems.scripts;

import com.fs.starfarer.api.combat.MutableShipStatsAPI;
import com.fs.starfarer.api.plugins.ShipSystemStatsScript;

public class FortressShieldStats implements ShipSystemStatsScript {

	public void apply(MutableShipStatsAPI stats, String id, State state, float effectLevel) {
		//stats.getShieldTurnRateMult().modifyMult(id, 1f);
		//stats.getShieldUnfoldRateMult().modifyPercent(id, 2000);
		
		stats.getShieldDamageTakenMult().modifyMult(id, 0f);
		//stats.getShieldAbsorptionMult().modifyMult(id, 0.2f);
		stats.getShieldUpkeepMult().modifyMult(id, 0f);
	}
	public void unapply(MutableShipStatsAPI stats, String id) {
		//stats.getShieldAbsorptionMult().unmodify(id);
		//stats.getShieldArcBonus().unmodify(id);
		stats.getShieldDamageTakenMult().unmodify(id);
		//stats.getShieldTurnRateMult().unmodify(id);
		//stats.getShieldUnfoldRateMult().unmodify(id);
		stats.getShieldUpkeepMult().unmodify(id);
	}
	
	public StatusData getStatusData(int index, State state, float effectLevel) {
		if (index == 0) {
			return new StatusData("shield absorbs 10x damage", false);
		}
		return null;
	}
}

[close]

Result?  15 seconds of invulnerability, Flux dissipation, but you're dead in the water, no shooting, and then can't do it again for a while.  I think that the cooldown timer is probably the critical balance area; it needs to be high enough that it's a gamble, not a certainty that you're going to get full shields back after being a turtle for a minute.

[EDIT]Bumped up the cooldown; seems to work pretty well.  The lack of Hard Flux buildup makes this much less of a minor reprieve and if you're already moving at maximum speed, it can be situationally useful.

[Alex]

Erm... I have a feeling you may be missing how it actually works. You're aware soft flux can (and does) dissipate while it's up, right? It's anything but marginal, as you can get good mileage of it in just about any even engagement.

It allows you to fire until your flux tops out, then recuperate in the thick of battle while fortress shield is up. Since the Paragon is slow, it's particularly important because it usually can't get away to vent safely. Just that usage of it is a significant amount of extra flux room - regained in safety - never mind spot usage to absorb burst damage.

[xenoargh]

That may be the intended use, but what tends to happen is that I surround the ship, pile on DPS, ship raises Fortress Shield, gets Overloaded anyway, starts dying.  

It's not like 1 Paragon is usually duking it out with 1 other capship in actual Campaign play; usually, due to slow speed, it's at the tail end of the drips and drabs, gets deployed late, and if you can take it on at all, you can surround it.

A lot of dynamics aren't quite as apparent in Vanilla as they are in my mod, where a lot of your opponents are not going to run out of Flux unless you shoot back.

[Thaago]

That may be the intended use, but what tends to happen is that I surround the ship, pile on DPS, ship raises Fortress Shield, gets Overloaded anyway, starts dying. 

A lot of dynamics aren't quite as apparent in Vanilla as they are in my mod, where a lot of your opponents are not going to run out of Flux unless you shoot back.

Question: does the ship drop FS and fire when it has only hard flux left, but also has room left in the flux reserve?
If not then the incoming DPS is so high that it triggers the 'spot usage'. If this is an inappropriate circumstance (the ship is not totally outclassed but is instead gimping itself) then that sounds like a behavior bug to me and could probably use its own thread in the bugs section.

where a lot of your opponents are not going to run out of Flux unless you shoot back

Does this also apply to the ship with the fortress shield? I ask because the Fortress Shield really shines when the ship using it has significantly higher flux usage from weapons+shield than dissipation. I try to run my Paragon's at about a 1.75 - 1 ratio of usage - dissipation to take advantage of the 'hide behind the fortress and deflux' behavior.

Apologies, but which mod is yours? I couldn't find it with a search.

[Catra]

That may be the intended use, but what tends to happen is that I surround the ship, pile on DPS, ship raises Fortress Shield, gets Overloaded anyway, starts dying.  

It's not like 1 Paragon is usually duking it out with 1 other capship in actual Campaign play; usually, due to slow speed, it's at the tail end of the drips and drabs, gets deployed late, and if you can take it on at all, you can surround it.

so the fortress shield is bad because the AI is faulty and you completely dominated them? that reasoning seems legit. :p

@ alex

reality check:

intended use and actual use are different, pretty bad form to dismiss someone trying to tell you this with what's essentially "you're doing it wrong".

[xenoargh]

If this is an inappropriate circumstance (the ship is not totally outclassed but is instead gimping itself) then that sounds like a behavior bug to me and could probably use its own thread in the bugs section.

Yeah, it's probably an AI miscalculation (not bug, really, just not quite taking advantage of it well) in part; the intended use case is to use it when Hard Flux < 50% of Overload values or thereabout, after that it gets reeeeeal situational, even in Vanilla, so it probably shouldn't bother past that.  

Losing the DPS trade, even at a weak Soft Flux level where a lot of weapons are forced off, creates more problems than it solves, once a capship with this is surrounded and must start killing the sources of DPS.  It's probably far better to simply drop the shields and start taking armor hits.

I tried a further variation of this:

Code

Fortress Shield,fortressshield,,,-0.05,,,,,,1,15,1,35,,,,TRUE,TRUE,,TRUE,TRUE,,graphics/icons/hullsys/fortress_shield.png

This allows for Hard Flux to actually be bled off while your ship's forced to quit maneuvering or firing, giving the ship a real second chance but at the big cost of being out of the DPS competition for quite some time and not being able to pull it off again in time to avoid Overload, in really serious situations.  It may not save a ship from a pack of wolves, but it means that it'll emerge and be really dangerous again.

I think something like that's how I want to keep it over here; this gives it more of a turtle use and it's less likely to be used badly by the AI.

[Wyvern]

Erm... I have a feeling you may be missing how it actually works. You're aware soft flux can (and does) dissipate while it's up, right? It's anything but marginal, as you can get good mileage of it in just about any even engagement.

It allows you to fire until your flux tops out, then recuperate in the thick of battle while fortress shield is up. Since the Paragon is slow, it's particularly important because it usually can't get away to vent safely. Just that usage of it is a significant amount of extra flux room - regained in safety - never mind spot usage to absorb burst damage.

Odd; I've never been able to get it to work that way - for me, turning fortress shield on for any length of time inevitably results in *more* hard flux than if I'd just stopped firing without the system.  Yes, it may result in total flux going down a bit faster - but never by enough to be worth the extra hard flux.  It does still have one use: absorbing alpha strikes (torpedos, bomber runs, shots from slow-firing kinetic weapons or sabot SRMs, that sort of thing) where you can flick it on and then off again.  But that's all I've found it to be good for.

Personally, I'd prefer a fortress shield that had a very low maintenance cost, but some sort of either cooldown once turned off, or activation cost, or something to make it more of a "turtle" device than a "momentary shield" device.