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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Blog post: Skills and Story Points (07/08/19)

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Author Topic: Starfarer 0.54a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 299496 times)

Gothars

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2012, 02:52:48 AM »

Alex, this is all really great, but could you please, please change "Ordnance Expert" to "Ordnance Expertise" ? It kills me to have one skill fall out of (grammatical) alignment :'(

« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 06:50:31 AM by Gothars »
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DJ Die

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2012, 03:31:10 AM »

Alex, this is all really great, but could please, please change "Ordnance Expert" to "Ordnance Expertise" ? It kills me to have one skill fall out of (grammatical) alignment :'(
ah so the G in your avatar doesnt mean Gothars but Grammar nazi? ;D just kidding ive noticed that one too

cant wait for this patch especially because friendly ships wont teleport into your own anymore....
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Faiter119

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2012, 04:56:35 AM »

Will the enemy fleets also be using the skills and perks? If not, that would be a sizable advantage to the player.
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Nori

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2012, 06:37:59 AM »

Forgive me if this was answered elsewhere.

I read your blog post about the skills a few days ago and it totally sounds awesome. But I just noticed in these dev patch notes that you said "No more synergies". Was the idea of synergies between skills taken out for some reason? Can you give any further info on that? I thought it sounded kind of cool, but either way I'm sure it'll work great.
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Gothars

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2012, 06:52:20 AM »

I read your blog post about the skills a few days ago and it totally sounds awesome. But I just noticed in these dev patch notes that you said "No more synergies". Was the idea of synergies between skills taken out for some reason? Can you give any further info on that? I thought it sounded kind of cool, but either way I'm sure it'll work great.


I got about halfway into a very initial implementation of the skills - enough to see how it would look/play out and synergies just weren't working out. Hard to keep track of - even with some UI help - and felt, well, a bit too much like Excel.

Also difficult to expand/build out - some skills synergize nicely, concept wise, but others do not. Coming up with sensible bonuses Skill A gives to Skill B (and different bonuses that go from B to A!) is in some cases very difficult. Adding an entirely new skill into the mix would be troublesome.

There are some other things to flesh out skills instead of synergies, though - stuff I'm actually more excited about. It's cleaner, simpler, but also (I think) more interesting, because of how it shakes up the curve of when you get bonuses.
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Okim

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2012, 06:57:32 AM »

First time i read about synergies my though was: 'oh man, that`s going to be too complex'. Then i read about synergy chains and just imagined how difficult it would be to plan ahead what your char is going to be with all those interlinks.

A simple aptitudes and skills tree with soft cap and some additional skills that branch off from the main ones is a much better system. While i like complexity and usually criticise modern games that run towards casualness - SF is going to be deep, complex and enjoyable on itself without synergies.

That`s my IMHO.

Trylobot

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2012, 07:10:32 AM »

I'm honestly just glad I won't have to use the word Synergies after this moment
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2012, 08:11:13 AM »

Quote
Projectile graphics now rendered at correct aspect ratio based on the width of the trail, regardless of its length
So, if a shell bitmap's 8 pixels wide and 24 long, we define the trail at 8 pixels and it'll render correctly, yes, and if we make the width of the trail 16, it'll double the size of the bitmap by making the quad bigger, yes?

Yep, barring any bugs.

@naufrago: Some of this is actually improved (in particular, re: high tech lowering shields too aggressively), but I don't think I wrote the changes down. I'm aware of these general issues - I'll probably take a look at one point or another, but at this point, it just makes more sense to spend time on campaign features, unless a particular AI behavior is a serious problem. It's never going to be perfect, there'll always be incremental improvements to make. I still want to hear about it when it does something undesirable, though :)


  • Varying degrees of independence (bombers - none ("stay on target!"), interceptors - lots)
  • Will target and individually avoid incoming missiles
Does that mean less fighters flying into a wave of bombs from Piranhas?

There'll be a lot less of it, and they won't be quite so oblivious about it.

Alex, what about giving HP to heavy projectiles and adding pierceSet to them in order to make railgun type weapons in 0.54?

Yeah, I remember from last time we talked about it. And from that time it came up in the suggestions section :) It's not high on the priority list, but if I get some time, this may be one of the things I'll look at. There are lots of nice-to-haves, though.

Alex, this is all really great, but could you please, please change "Ordnance Expert" to "Ordnance Expertise" ? It kills me to have one skill fall out of (grammatical) alignment :'(

Erm, "Gunnery Implants" and "Computer Systems" aren't aligned either. I'll give the naming a bit more thought, though.

Will the enemy fleets also be using the skills and perks? If not, that would be a sizable advantage to the player.

Eventually, yes. For the next release, probably no. The way it's coded is specifically designed so that it can apply to any fleet/ship, though, not just the player's.

First time i read about synergies my though was: 'oh man, that`s going to be too complex'. Then i read about synergy chains and just imagined how difficult it would be to plan ahead what your char is going to be with all those interlinks.

A simple aptitudes and skills tree with soft cap and some additional skills that branch off from the main ones is a much better system. While i like complexity and usually criticise modern games that run towards casualness - SF is going to be deep, complex and enjoyable on itself without synergies.

Yeah, it was just too involved. I'm not crazy about skill trees, though. They end up forcing a bunch of picks on the player... I'm sure you could get them "right" but it seems difficult.

I'm honestly just glad I won't have to use the word Synergies after this moment

New mechanic: "core competencies".

(Just in case it's not abundantly clear to everyone: I'm joking.)
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BillyRueben

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2012, 08:32:27 AM »

So how much did the flak cannon get indirectly nerfed due to the new fighter AI? Does it still work fairly well, or is it no longer instant Talon death? Any chance we could get a quick clip of the new fighters in action if this patch is going to be in development for a while?
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Gothars

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2012, 08:37:28 AM »

Alex, this is all really great, but could you please, please change "Ordnance Expert" to "Ordnance Expertise" ? It kills me to have one skill fall out of (grammatical) alignment :'(

Erm, "Gunnery Implants" and "Computer Systems" aren't aligned either. I'll give the naming a bit more thought, though.


Yeah, sorry that I'm a *** about that unimportant stuff, just bugs me a bit. If you put "skilled with" in front of the skill, that works (more or less) with every skill and perk (including Implants and Systems) except "Ordnance Expert".  I'm no native speaker anyway, so maybe it's all rubbish :D


Spoiler
  • skilled with Ordnance Expert (perks:skilled with Secured Magazines,skilled with Optimized Assembly)
  • skilled with Damage Control (perks: skilled with Compartmentalization, skilled with Rapid Response Teams)
  • skilled with Target Analysis (perks: skilled with Precision Fire, skilled with Active Frequency Detection)
  • skilled with Evasive Action (perks: skilled with Evasion, skilled with Deflection)
  • skilled with Helmsmanship (perks: skilled with Maximum Power, skilled with Dynamic Stabilization)
  • skilled with Gunnery Implants (perks: skilled with Neural Diagnostics, skilled with Weapon Proprioception)
  • skilled with Mechanical Engineering (perks: skilled with Effective Maintenance)
  • skilled with Computer Systems
[close]
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2012, 09:17:30 AM »

Oops, missed this earlier:

Is all the skill and stuff getting its own GUI? Will David make a bunch more of those lil' icons for each skill and all that jazz? Having it look slick and artsy is always a plus!

That's the plan.

Would you say you've done a lot of the harder skill system work now? Like you've laid down the framework and now you'll have a much easier time of adding, arranging and editing new skills into the game? Really wanting to be able to enjoy another layer of customization and content so I'm pretty stoked that this is gonna be getting the spotlight for a time. ;D

Yes, mostly - but then the adding/editing/arranging/balancing/etc is the more time-consuming part.
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DJ Die

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2012, 10:12:43 AM »


Yeah, sorry that I'm a *** about that unimportant stuff, just bugs me a bit. If you put "skilled with" in front of the skill, that works (more or less) with every skill and perk (including Implants and Systems) except "Ordnance Expert".  I'm no native speaker anyway, so maybe it's all rubbish :D


Spoiler
  • skilled with Ordnance Expert (perks:skilled with Secured Magazines,skilled with Optimized Assembly)
  • skilled with Damage Control (perks: skilled with Compartmentalization, skilled with Rapid Response Teams)
  • skilled with Target Analysis (perks: skilled with Precision Fire, skilled with Active Frequency Detection)
  • skilled with Evasive Action (perks: skilled with Evasion, skilled with Deflection)
  • skilled with Helmsmanship (perks: skilled with Maximum Power, skilled with Dynamic Stabilization)
  • skilled with Gunnery Implants (perks: skilled with Neural Diagnostics, skilled with Weapon Proprioception)
  • skilled with Mechanical Engineering (perks: skilled with Effective Maintenance)
  • skilled with Computer Systems
[close]

uh i dont think that would work because he would be skilled in/at helmsmanship for example

sadly it will probably be harder than that
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2012, 11:30:43 AM »

Totally awesome!  With Faster Than Light coming out tomorrow, I should last long enough for this awesomeness to arrive.
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icepick37

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2012, 11:48:29 AM »

Haha, yeah. I can't wait for this patch, though. Starfarer just keeps getting better and better.  :D
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Sendrien

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Re: Starfarer 0.54a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2012, 12:25:31 PM »

The list of changes and improvements look great already!

Alex, if these are not too hard to implement, would you consider three small additional changes to 0.54a?

- A "75%" player ship damage option
- Slightly decrease the flux consumption on the Plasma Cannon, otherwise it is really not even on par with the Autopulse
- Increase the ammo capacity of the Gauss Cannon (50 ammo means you can run out 25% through a long fight - it's a good weapon, but the low ammo is too punishing)

Thanks :)

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