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Author Topic: Project Ironclads TC (28 of April, 2017) Source files for the mod  (Read 1638869 times)

silentstormpt

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2175 on: November 02, 2013, 02:26:03 PM »

You can`t play even with Java-64 and modified vmparams? Or you just have no 64 rig?

...

I have a 64 bit rig, 64 bit JRE6, and vmparams set to 2048 - I can load games for a little while as long as I have the sounds off, but after 4,5 saves (not sure if its number of saves or length in game, maybe 3 months?) it runs out of memory on load. Very sad too, as I absolutely love what you've done with the mod and sprites.

Have the same problem, there's too many resources the game is saving that it shouldnt, if you check the save file size its ludicrously large. This will probably change once vanilla hits this problem aswell.

The OnHitCritical can be considered as a Utility mod, it is a script that requires to be applied on a OnHit script to have an effect, giving you the freedom of choosing what weapons you want to have it active. Since its only used only "On Hits" makes it alot more friendly to lower end machines.
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Okim

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2176 on: November 02, 2013, 02:35:07 PM »

I`ve spoken with Alex regarding save problems and he adviced me to look at core scripts that save too much 'extra' damage data. Said to simplify autoresolve to make it save just two values - dead/alive.

I`ll try to do something with that, but i haven`t yet looked in that direction.

ChaseBears

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2177 on: November 04, 2013, 05:44:32 AM »

I love this mod so far. It really shows off the potential of Starsector. 


Balance feedback: The RSF 23mm gun is problematic.  The bullet velocity is low enough that fighters equipped with it can't hit the broad side of a barn half the time.  It's also low enough that it takes a miracle to ever hit fighters, since they are almost as fast as the projectile.  The 23mm quad mount is awful, too; I was testing it in comparison with the micro-laser, and on an Ox against 10 Darts it managed to kill all of one fighter before running out of ammunition.  I have occasionally ended up with minutes-long "Dart Sieges" when my only surviving effective forces are Darts and a carrier.  It takes aaaaaaaages for the Darts to kill anything.  Suggestion: Increase bullet velocity for more consistent damage output.

I also found that the microlaser was effective, but wonky.  When it depletes its charge it 'flickers', which both looks weird and is ineffective. Is it possible to make it delay until it can fire a full burst?

Also...Maybe this is just RSF.  It's weird how civilian ships and pirates generally don't have shields, yet their loadouts are incredibly effective against vessels that rely on shields as opposed to armor.  It might define the gap better if Civilians used more Fragmentation and less Kinetic.  If you do manage to loot or find military high explosive weapons, the Civilian ships are pretty competitive simply because they are well armored and they can smash military shields as is! 

EDIT:

I think trading gives too much XP. I level up practically every trading run once I had 50000 in capital or so. 
Also. I just discovered that the Achiles system has a Orbital Factory about 2 feet from a Security Station. One sells Low-Tech Components at 80cr, the other buys Low-Tech at 90cr, it takes 5 seconds to get between the two... :)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 06:19:08 AM by ChaseBears »
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Wunder

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2178 on: November 04, 2013, 08:05:20 AM »

I flew the dreadnaught
No abilities
Just
Sheer
Cannons.
Barely any speed too
I took out the dreadnaught easily too,
You take down its shields smash its defences and let thee...
                                            B202 bombers do the rest of the work!

It has no shields...
Then mine good sir is bugged...
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Okim

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2179 on: November 04, 2013, 08:25:19 AM »

I flew the dreadnaught
No abilities
Just
Sheer
Cannons.
Barely any speed too
I took out the dreadnaught easily too,
You take down its shields smash its defences and let thee...
                                            B202 bombers do the rest of the work!

It has no shields...
Then mine good sir is bugged...

You probably confusing it with Moscow battleship. There is a huge dreadnaught that is only available in mission and can`t be seen/used in campaign.

Okim

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2180 on: November 04, 2013, 08:41:15 AM »

Quote
Balance feedback: The RSF 23mm gun is problematic.  The bullet velocity is low enough that fighters equipped with it can't hit the broad side of a barn half the time.  It's also low enough that it takes a miracle to ever hit fighters, since they are almost as fast as the projectile.  The 23mm quad mount is awful, too; I was testing it in comparison with the micro-laser, and on an Ox against 10 Darts it managed to kill all of one fighter before running out of ammunition.  I have occasionally ended up with minutes-long "Dart Sieges" when my only surviving effective forces are Darts and a carrier.  It takes aaaaaaaages for the Darts to kill anything.  Suggestion: Increase bullet velocity for more consistent damage output.

23mm gun/quad gun are one of the cheapiest guns in the game. They are designed to kill missiles and only them. RSF have 14mm machineguns and powerful flaks against anything else.

Dart is a cheap cannon fodder, but can be devastating when used in mass and against enemy fighters without carrier support. Its Arrow is what the enemy should be afraid of.

Quote
I also found that the microlaser was effective, but wonky.  When it depletes its charge it 'flickers', which both looks weird and is ineffective. Is it possible to make it delay until it can fire a full burst?

Microlaser is the same as 23mm gun - a very cheap energy weapon for 4 OPs. Good against single burst of low HP missiles (piranhas, hunters etc), but lacks power against anything else. Array is much better against fighters, but still its an anti-missile/torpedo weapon. Beamers are what XLE use against fighters.

Quote
Also...Maybe this is just RSF.  It's weird how civilian ships and pirates generally don't have shields, yet their loadouts are incredibly effective against vessels that rely on shields as opposed to armor.  It might define the gap better if Civilians used more Fragmentation and less Kinetic.  If you do manage to loot or find military high explosive weapons, the Civilian ships are pretty competitive simply because they are well armored and they can smash military shields as is!  


Thats an intended feature. RSF ships are cheap and readily available to those who got themselves broke or experiencing troubles with killing pirates. Also RSF freighters are so fragile that they fall pretty well under 'noobs target practise dummies' category. They pop even from a singe Mosquitto missile hit...

Quote
I think trading gives too much XP. I level up practically every trading run once I had 50000 in capital or so.  
Also. I just discovered that the Achiles system has a Orbital Factory about 2 feet from a Security Station. One sells Low-Tech Components at 80cr, the other buys Low-Tech at 90cr, it takes 5 seconds to get between the two... :)

Will see to it. The current XP system as well as trading system itselve is rather simplified. 6.6 will get some extra attention to it - no more easy runs like the ones that are listed on the first page (Achiles, Uomoz etc.), better trading options, prices available in player journal etc.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 08:43:11 AM by Okim »
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drakhades

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2181 on: November 04, 2013, 09:54:02 AM »

the easy trade run in the Achiles system is honestly the only reason I play this mod more than once.   Sorry but spending hours to get enough money to field more than scrap is not fun.

especially since you can't actually make money from combat anymore, and when you start you don't have enough storage space to hold more than the supplies needed to get you to the next station, so all the equipment you get as a reward from combat gets jettisoned.

balancing/improving is great and all but please be aware that balancing that might make the mid/late game more interesting can make the early game a tedious experience.
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Okim

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2182 on: November 04, 2013, 11:20:23 AM »

Once Starsector is out i`m more than sure that you`ll get very similar difficulty curve from your start to mid and late game.

ChaseBears

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2183 on: November 04, 2013, 11:35:31 AM »

I made a chart~~

Noone take it TOO literally. But it's food for thought.

Connnecticut SRM frigate, 20 missiles, vs ballistic point defense weapons.

Code
Weapon -	OP	Kills
Bofors Bat 12 20
Rapier Def 10 16
23mm Quad 10 10
Closein WS 10 15
42mm Adv 10 18
52mm Link 9 15
Shotgun - 8 5
40mm Flak 8 16
42mm Flak 8 13
14mm Dual 5 7
Bofors Gun 4 8
Vickers MG 3 8
23mm Gun 3 6


Not included: ammo depletion rates, behavior as part of an array, differing battlespace conditions, etc.  Obviously there's a lot that affects things. For example, even the good defense systems tended to let 1-2 of the first missiles through because of the high closing rate (forward thrust  + long range missile fire).  That was the case for the 42mm advanced, it nailed every shot after the first group. 

But I do think it illustrates the prob with the quad 23mm. Crappy is one thing, but it costs 10 OP and it has less than 50 seconds of ammunition supply to boot.

As for the regular 23mm... It's not so much its damage or anything, it's just that it cant hit the broad side of a Sword.  I made some videos to show this quite literally.

http://deadlyshoe.com/games/IronTest.zip

One is of Darts, and you can see them miss all day long against a large slowly moving target.   The other is of the ISA Pursuit fighters, which land most of their hits.  I believe the difference comes from the ratio of the bullet speed to the fighter speed.  The AI doesn't compensate well for the effect of its own movement on the bullet physics - you can see the ISA fighters whiffing when they are at certain approach angles too.

(Color values of dart video altered to show bullets more clearly.)
Quote
Microlaser is the same as 23mm gun - a very cheap energy weapon for 4 OPs. Good against single burst of low HP missiles (piranhas, hunters etc), but lacks power against anything else. Array is much better against fighters, but still its an anti-missile/torpedo weapon. Beamers are what XLE use against fighters.

I was talking about the Array.  I can't repro the behavior though, now it functions normally (as opposed to flickering) when I go to record it.  I guess it was a weird artifact, probably java messing up ;)

Quote
the easy trade run in the Achiles system is honestly the only reason I play this mod more than once.   Sorry but spending hours to get enough money to field more than scrap is not fun.

especially since you can't actually make money from combat anymore, and when you start you don't have enough storage space to hold more than the supplies needed to get you to the next station, so all the equipment you get as a reward from combat gets jettisoned.

balancing/improving is great and all but please be aware that balancing that might make the mid/late game more interesting can make the early game a tedious experience.
Yes it is brutal. After falling on  my face a couple of times, I did a RSF mercenary start, spent all my cash on fuel and supplies, and went pirated 2-3 solo ISA traders.  The real loot is trade goods and fuel, particularly  stuff like exotic minerals.  Supplies don't matter so much anymore.  One run is enough to get you a freighter, ideally a Saiga hybrid (or something similar) to keep your speed up, which drastically increases your loot carrying ability.  This was way more profitable than trying to kill pirates... ;)



EDIT-
Ahahaha the RSF drone destroyer looks incredibly OP. I blew up 4 ISA destroyers at once in Sim.  It's just not even fair.  I  haven't tried anything further, the game crashed and i lost my save xD. Maybe that's justplayer hands. Will experiment further.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 01:48:29 PM by ChaseBears »
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Thaago

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2184 on: November 04, 2013, 06:23:23 PM »

Hmm - I've been trying to chase down the memory issues on my machine and I noticed something odd: whenever I try to load a too big save, the java program always stalls out at around 820mb of ram, even though I have the settings at 2048 and the 64 bit jre installed. I was maybe thinking the jre couldn't grab enough contiguous ram, but I restarted to reset the allocations and the same result happened.

Would someone else mind watching the memory consumption in the task manager while loading a save and see what it peaks at? My machine has 4gb memory and at least 2gb free when I ran the program, so I'm confused at the ~820 limit.
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OOZ662

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2185 on: November 04, 2013, 06:47:47 PM »

I've run into a Null Pointer Exception when running a simulation using an RSF cruiser (Novorogod? The "standard" cruiser) with only a large Porcupine torpedo launcher in the universal mount against a standard ISA destroyer loadout. We approach each other, he starts heaving big torpedoes, I put up my shield and absorb them, fire the Porcupines, and around the time they start to hit the side of his hull the game crashes.

My computer is a lump of junk, though my very limited programming experience makes me think this isn't a memory error, especially since it happens the same way on a "bloated" long-running process and a fresh start of the game. I figure I'd post it here first before the support section since a lot of topics over there have been moved to the modding section; I'll copy this post over if it's an engine issue. The attached log is "fresh," as in I deleted the old one, started the game up and recreated the crash.

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Okim

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2186 on: November 04, 2013, 10:04:53 PM »

Hmm - I've been trying to chase down the memory issues on my machine and I noticed something odd: whenever I try to load a too big save, the java program always stalls out at around 820mb of ram, even though I have the settings at 2048 and the 64 bit jre installed. I was maybe thinking the jre couldn't grab enough contiguous ram, but I restarted to reset the allocations and the same result happened.

Would someone else mind watching the memory consumption in the task manager while loading a save and see what it peaks at? My machine has 4gb memory and at least 2gb free when I ran the program, so I'm confused at the ~820 limit.

I noticed it when the first time got problems with saves. The same 800+ mbs. Alex says to check memory usage by using some testing utility that i can`t recall right now. Said that what taskmanager displays if far from what actually the game is using.

Okim

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2187 on: November 04, 2013, 10:07:51 PM »

I've run into a Null Pointer Exception when running a simulation using an RSF cruiser (Novorogod? The "standard" cruiser) with only a large Porcupine torpedo launcher in the universal mount against a standard ISA destroyer loadout. We approach each other, he starts heaving big torpedoes, I put up my shield and absorb them, fire the Porcupines, and around the time they start to hit the side of his hull the game crashes.

My computer is a lump of junk, though my very limited programming experience makes me think this isn't a memory error, especially since it happens the same way on a "bloated" long-running process and a fresh start of the game. I figure I'd post it here first before the support section since a lot of topics over there have been moved to the modding section; I'll copy this post over if it's an engine issue. The attached log is "fresh," as in I deleted the old one, started the game up and recreated the crash.

Odd. The last thing before the crash was damage allocation. Have no idea what causes it as porcupine and its warheads do have their damage values set properly. Will try to reproduce though.

Okim

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2188 on: November 04, 2013, 10:20:53 PM »

Quote
Ahahaha the RSF drone destroyer looks incredibly OP. I blew up 4 ISA destroyers at once in Sim.  It's just not even fair.  I  haven't tried anything further, the game crashed and i lost my save xD. Maybe that's justplayer hands. Will experiment further.

Good catch.

It is supposed to use 25 CR for deployment, have 180 seconds of peak time after which it will start loosing CR by a factor of 0.5.
BTW, all drone carriers were updated to operate like this.

Blowing up AI ships in sim does not mean anything at all ;)

OOZ662

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Re: Project Ironclads Total Conversion, version 6.5 (0.6.1a)
« Reply #2189 on: November 04, 2013, 10:52:20 PM »

I've run into a Null Pointer Exception when running a simulation using an RSF cruiser (Novorogod? The "standard" cruiser) with only a large Porcupine torpedo launcher in the universal mount against a standard ISA destroyer loadout. We approach each other, he starts heaving big torpedoes, I put up my shield and absorb them, fire the Porcupines, and around the time they start to hit the side of his hull the game crashes.

My computer is a lump of junk, though my very limited programming experience makes me think this isn't a memory error, especially since it happens the same way on a "bloated" long-running process and a fresh start of the game. I figure I'd post it here first before the support section since a lot of topics over there have been moved to the modding section; I'll copy this post over if it's an engine issue. The attached log is "fresh," as in I deleted the old one, started the game up and recreated the crash.

Odd. The last thing before the crash was damage allocation. Have no idea what causes it as porcupine and its warheads do have their damage values set properly. Will try to reproduce though.

Annoyingly I can't record it as local video streaming just captures the first frame of the game for some reason. However, I've recreated it 7 times without fail now. Let me know if you need a savefile or something.
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