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Author Topic: Starsector PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed  (Read 108536 times)

Ghoti

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2012, 06:28:22 AM »

I thought this was a joke
Spoiler

THIS WAS NOT A JOKE.
[close]
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mendonca

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2012, 06:57:01 AM »

My beautiful trans-dimensional Clam.

That demonstrates clearly how fiddly it was in a time when we had to set the bounds manually!

(You don't know how good you've got it! In my day ... blah blah blah)

(But really, I shouldn't have got it that wrong)
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"I'm doing it, I'm making them purple! No one can stop me!"

Brainbread

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2012, 07:32:53 AM »

My beautiful trans-dimensional Clam.

That demonstrates clearly how fiddly it was in a time when we had to set the bounds manually!

(You don't know how good you've got it! In my day ... blah blah blah)

(But really, I shouldn't have got it that wrong)

No wonder the bloody thing was so hard to kill.

I think you should leave it. Its the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
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Ghoti

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2012, 07:51:58 AM »

I think you should leave it. Its the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
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Trylobot

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2012, 07:53:09 AM »

I am laughing so hard right now I think I hurt a lung
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Archduke Astro

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2012, 11:12:57 AM »

Like Trylobot, I also feel like I'm gonna barf up a couple of ribs from so much laughter. The ISS Edvard Munch is right on target!
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We thought our last moment had come
when we got a message up the voice pipe
saying that 'A' Turret magazine was on fire.....

Ghoti

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2012, 12:31:49 PM »

Gentlemen.
Spoiler


[close]

and yes
Spoiler
[close]
http://www.mediafire.com/?gb2ktknxosj2kfp

This isn't nearly as funny as nyan cat though  >:(
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Archduke Astro

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2012, 12:50:56 PM »

The energy weapons coming out of the eyes is what brings it all together.
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We thought our last moment had come
when we got a message up the voice pipe
saying that 'A' Turret magazine was on fire.....

Archduke Astro

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2012, 01:12:03 PM »

Addendum to the Public Service Announcement:

There's been some worry here about the desire to have hard guidelines about how many boundary-box vertices are enough vs. too much. To echo Trylobot's advice, there can be no absolute limits here because the solution is not a single number value; it's a relative range of effect, dependent upon the complexity of the sprite in question. But total surrender to the over-intricate aesthetics of any given modded-made sprite is definitely not in anyone's best interests.

At this point in the discussion, I thought it would be helpful to provide some concrete examples of what to aim for. Here are some examples of the bounds polygons for official Starfarer units. These guides should help greatly -- please compare them to your own modder-made creations, and you'll quickly get a better feel for "how many is too many". Official ships often have quite a lot fewer bounds points than you might assume they do.....

Spoiler
[close]
This is a superb example of what Alex mentioned about keeping the bounds well inside of the sprite. And I bet some of you are shocked that a shape as visually irregular as this sprite can be satisfactorily bounded within only 19 vertices. Designers of 100-plus vertex bounds, please take note.

Spoiler
[close]
Oh, those lovely high-tech curves! Yet in bounds terms, it's treated like a hand-held gardening trowel. No computer performance hit from this bounds box!

Spoiler
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Even with this fearsome hull, one can see a few places where this boundary box can be simplified further with no ill effects. Check out those side missile slots.

Spoiler
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Perfect demonstration of what Alex meant when he counseled ValkyriaL about how to handle the gap in the bow: just zig-zag straight to the bottom, and right back out again.

Spoiler
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It's a brick! :D Sure, it's a streamlined hull of pure awesome, but still a brick of only 5 bounds. Imitate it. ;)

Everyone can now see how when it comes to bounds, additional data does not necessarily equal additional useful information. Ships can and do get by just fine on surprisingly few boundary points. Coverage of engine exhausts does not need to be encyclopedic in its scope; that's often the first place one can delete several vertices from modder-made ships.

And even some official ships can afford to lose a few bounds, as we saw with the Conquest. The Astral is difficult to meaningfully slim down its vertex count further, while the Paragon can definitely afford to give up as many as 8 of them.

There are many customers of Fractal Softworks who do not fit the assumed profile of "serious gamer" from a hardware standpoint. It is very important to remember that. Even if someone does have a moderate-performance box  -- instead of a 10-year-old computer stuck with WinXP SP1 and only 1024MB RAM (how soon we forget) -- their graphics card may still be well behind the curve by a rather wide margin. For reasons of technical know-how as well as basic finance, many of these acceptable but unspectacular machines are unlikely to improve. It is not reasonable to cut these folks out of your audience when you spec out mods which include ships of fiendishly-clever but also unnecessary complexity.

The RAM, CPU and video card of many older computers thank you for your friendly restraint. ;D
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 01:23:19 PM by Archduke Astro »
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We thought our last moment had come
when we got a message up the voice pipe
saying that 'A' Turret magazine was on fire.....

ValkyriaL

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2012, 03:29:51 AM »

The gap bound on the sunder is not in the middle. :O
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Trylobot

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2012, 09:24:26 AM »

That's really all you took away from that, ValkyriaL?
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Ghoti

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2012, 09:30:17 AM »

Hey. Leave my little buddy alone.  ;)
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Piroton

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2012, 03:25:24 AM »

Hmm, is this okay for something that costs 34 fleet points? I'm kinda feeling that this should be a bit more detailed.


Or is this also okay?
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2012, 03:46:01 AM »

looks perfect
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 05:19:13 AM by ValkyriaL »
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ValkyriaL

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Re: Starfarer PSA #1: Your Ship's Bounds Polygon Is Too Detailed
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2012, 05:21:35 AM »

The more closed spaces the ship has, the more bounds matter (i think), i had to keep that in mind as well that i didn't need to put bounds in places where shells can't even hit to begin with :P

But im a little confused with this one.



I think im going to make it my faction's station or a mobile star base in a fleet, does stations need bounds? or they are just flying graphics. ??? 
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