Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Author Topic: Gravity and Planets  (Read 3846 times)

kellpossible

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Gravity and Planets
« on: August 28, 2012, 07:09:57 AM »

Not sure if this suggestion has been made before, but here goes:
I recently bought: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kapturak.neworbit
and absolutely loved the Newtonian based physics with gravity and orbits. It's something I've been yearning for in a space game for a long time, and tempting me to start one myself but I just don't have time with uni. It's obviously really hard to get right and keep it fun. I think this guy has absolutely nailed it, check out this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwg6kMypgCY
Some things that I really enjoyed from playing this game were:
entering orbits, and changing the shape of the orbit just feels perfect, and is quite skillfull. I'm a personal believer in games that are about skills that one can carry over from real life (knowledge of physics), and that one can learn easily in the game (if they don't study physics ;) ) to become a better player. It should be something that a player can get consistently better at with practice and experimentation. This rule applies to a lot to movement, weapon and fleet tactics in starfarer which is why I really love playing it, and experimenting. It brings a lot of joy to watch your own tactics and skills improve in a game.

Landing on planets is not a simple matter of heading straight for it, because your ship is unable to completely counter the force of gravity in time to slow down as it approaches the surface. It's much better to approach from an angle, enter an orbit and gradually descend. This was something I discovered pretty quickly because it has direct parallels to real life (which is fantastic imho)!

Then, even better, this guy has made cargo (mass) affect the acceleration of the vehicle, which ensure that the feeling and mechanics of controlling the vehicle are different, and require more consideration.

So how does all this fit into my idea for starfarer. Well, I think perhaps combat is complicated and entertaining enough without the need to introduce gravity into the equation. But, navigation in the solar-system, which already has some concept of gravity (ship slows down near planets or sun), could definitely be made more fun, and more skilful with the addition of a Newtonian gravity system like this game. It would be more than just a screen to get from a to b, but an entertaining exercise in gravity tactics.

[edit]
As a side note, if there is much stomping and stamping opposition to this idea. A clever way you could make this optional is to have an auto pilot mode which tends to use a lot more fuel and can be slower (routes chosen by autopilot are less efficient) than manually controlling the ship to get to the destination. That way there is benefit to learning how to manual control the ship navigation.

Ok so that was my first, and most preferable/exciting idea.
The second, was for seamless planet landing.
As the player's ship gets closer to the atmosphere and begins to approach the surface, the camera zooms in on the ship, to the point where all other elements of the solarsystem are out of view.
[technical] at this point the flat surface view of the planet could be loaded in replacing the solarsystem view of the entire planet.
Gradually the background turns from space to atmosphere to sky, and the front of the ship heats up (turns red).
Cloud sprites begin passing in front of and behind the ship as it approaches the surface, to dock at the space port on the surface, (or just land on the ground if the planet doesn't have a space port).
The planet view could be a nicely painted, static background and forground, and well, this is getting ahead of myself, the player click on different buildings to access different terminals (upgrades, missions, shops,
whatever a spaceport might have that could be interesting, easter eggs, something different for each planet or asteroid (maybe like a hidden treasure or something) :) ). It's one of the things I like about Vega Strike, the open source space rpg. When landing on planets it has wonderful painted backdrops with point and click adventure. This keeps things simple from a developer point of view, but still functional, fun and attractive.
The other line that could be taken would be to have the player exit the ship and walk around terarria style, but that's probably getting a little ahead of myself there.

These ideas are ones that I've had for a while for a game of my own, but the thing is, I love the sound design and combat mechanics and the overall feel of your game, that I'm happy enough to share here, and see what happens. Take them or leave them :)
If I get time, and nothing happens here, I may just have a shot at it myself.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 07:15:30 AM by kellpossible »
Logged

xenoargh

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 5078
  • naively breaking things!
    • View Profile
Re: Gravity and Planets
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2012, 07:50:17 AM »

Personally, if it was up to me, I'd go the opposite way, and make going from A to B less tedious, if anything.  It's the part of sandbox RPG games like these that really tends to drag after a while, and if Alex is serious about having a Sector with hundreds of star systems, I sure don't want merely flying to be a "challenging" exercise that would waste my real-life time.  I'd like to tell the System Drive to "go here" and then go there instantly, short of meeting an encounter, ala Fallout 3's system of Fast Travel.

Another way to look at it:  this is the Far Future, and the computers do all the work.  It's already like this IRL; nobody is calculating orbital mechanics by hand at this point, nor would it be very likely to fly spacecraft with enough delta-v to cross a solar system in days that somehow have serious problems with gravity wells less than a stellar mass.
Logged
Please check out my SS projects :)
Xeno's Mod Pack

kellpossible

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Gravity and Planets
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2012, 08:24:48 AM »

Personally, if it was up to me, I'd go the opposite way, and make going from A to B less tedious, if anything.  It's the part of sandbox RPG games like these that really tends to drag after a while, and if Alex is serious about having a Sector with hundreds of star systems, I sure don't want merely flying to be a "challenging" exercise that would waste my real-life time.  I'd like to tell the System Drive to "go here" and then go there instantly, short of meeting an encounter, ala Fallout 3's system of Fast Travel.

Another way to look at it:  this is the Far Future, and the computers do all the work.  It's already like this IRL; nobody is calculating orbital mechanics by hand at this point, nor would it be very likely to fly spacecraft with enough delta-v to cross a solar system in days that somehow have serious problems with gravity wells less than a stellar mass.

Yes I totally agree with you that a to b is a drag at the moment. Some people (not every single person) will find this idea fun, and I suggest you try that game before making up your mind. Also if you read the post carefully you'll notice that I've suggested a clever way to make it an opt in feature.
Logged

kellpossible

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Gravity and Planets
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 08:36:27 AM »

Also, thanks for your reply it reminded me of one other feature I thought of. Like you say it would be cool to have some kind of Fast Travel or hyperspace. I like the star wars take on this, where such travel can only occur outside the reach of significant gravity. The makes that type of travel l only really useful for inter-solar-system transport rather than interplanetary. Jumps can be left to be calculated by by he computer, to avoid hitting a star, and to easily make multiple jumps required to get to destination quickly, or if the player is in a hurry to escape a system they could take a risk and rush a manual jump with the potential for catastrophe :) who knows where you could end up.

Again I'm not suggesting these ideas should be exactly like like IRL. Just contain pleasurable references to it, and keep it fun, and allow for accumulative gain in skill for the player by practicing and getting good at it.
Logged

Aleskander

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
    • View Profile
Re: Gravity and Planets
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2012, 09:32:13 AM »

Personally, if it was up to me, I'd go the opposite way, and make going from A to B less tedious, if anything.  It's the part of sandbox RPG games like these that really tends to drag after a while, and if Alex is serious about having a Sector with hundreds of star systems, I sure don't want merely flying to be a "challenging" exercise that would waste my real-life time.  I'd like to tell the System Drive to "go here" and then go there instantly, short of meeting an encounter, ala Fallout 3's system of Fast Travel.

Another way to look at it:  this is the Far Future, and the computers do all the work.  It's already like this IRL; nobody is calculating orbital mechanics by hand at this point, nor would it be very likely to fly spacecraft with enough delta-v to cross a solar system in days that somehow have serious problems with gravity wells less than a stellar mass.

Wait, you didn't like spending 1/5th of Wind Waker sailing?
Logged

BillyRueben

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
    • View Profile
Re: Gravity and Planets
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2012, 10:31:35 AM »

Wait, you didn't like spending 1/5th of Wind Waker sailing?
1/5 only if you didn't do any of the extra stuff. If you did do the extra stuff, it was more like 1/2.

Back on topic, this just sounds incredibly tedious, and I don't think it would fit well within the game.
Logged

Aleskander

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 397
    • View Profile
Re: Gravity and Planets
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 10:36:27 AM »

Most games that have this implemented are way more complicated. There isn't much reason to put this in in the first place.
Logged

GUNINANRUNIN

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 719
  • Let's do it!
    • View Profile
Re: Gravity and Planets
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 10:54:52 AM »

Ah Wind Waker. OT that was such a cool game, being able to literally sail around the world.. It was epic.

Back to Starfarer.
Yeah I don't think this would fit too well imo. Maybe for a different game but not this one. The affects of gravity on navigation are already simulated by slowing your fleet down. I think thats enough.
Logged
In short, if you throw a stone out of the rear window of your spaceship you will go faster.