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[Bummelei]

I recall Alex saying something along the lines of SO needing to be nerfed eventually, but he doesn't really want to because they're fun. I have an idea that might work as a nerf without ruining the fun they provide: make SO incompatible with hardened subsystems. It seems like SO builds grab hardened subsystems almost by default to mitigate the downside, so removing that option should force players to actually deal with running out of CR if they take too long. Of course you still have combat endurance, but now you can't stack both with 100% CR and loiter on the battlefield long after peak performance runs out.

It also makes some sense in universe, because I imagine both hullmods involve extensive modifications to the ship's subsystems, with one increasing reliability and the other throwing reliability out the window to maximize performance.

I don't think this is a good idea. This will reduce circle of ships that able to use it to just low-tech destroyers and cruisers. You can forget about frigates, and high-tech ships at all. Like, Hyperion with 50 seconds time limit? What about Pather ships? It will reduce them to NPC only. And at the same time ships like Dominator will hardly even tell a difference.

[Embolism]

From both a flavour and gameplay standpoint I think Safety Overrides don't make sense on cruisers. Frigates and destroyers, fine; there's few enough moving parts that overlooking regulations is somewhat managable; but on a Cruiser there'd be so many little things going wrong that you'd have more crew trying to stop the ship from flying apart than actually manning the ship.

From a gameplay standpoint, there's a vague dichotomy of speedy/short ranged ships vs slow/long ranged ships in StarSector and SO basically pushes ships towards the speedy/short ranged side. Frigates are naturally towards that end already while cruisers tend towards the other end, so in many cases SO on a frigate or destroyer is playing to its strengths (and thus less of a paradigm shift), whereas SO on a cruiser tends to be turn about making the ship something it isn't (i.e. a big paradigm shift and used as ammo for some people to say stuff like "Eagle is fine because of SO").

So my thought is that SO should just be banned on cruisers. Yes that includes the Pather Colossus because let's be honest, it's not doing that much good on that ship anyway (and could easily be replaced by something like Unstable Injectors, plus the new Pather Venture won't have SO either).

Does SO need further nerfs if it can't be used on cruisers? I think probably not. Most it might need is a bit of a nerf on destroyers only, maybe a bigger PPT debuff on destroyers compared to frigates to represent how much harder it is to keep a larger ship from flying apart when you disable all the limits.

[Grievous69]

From both a flavour and gameplay standpoint I think Safety Overrides don't make sense on cruisers. Frigates and destroyers, fine; there's few enough moving parts that overlooking regulations is somewhat managable; but on a Cruiser there'd be so many little things going wrong that you'd have more crew trying to stop the ship from flying apart than actually manning the ship.

From a gameplay standpoint, there's a vague dichotomy of speedy/short ranged ships vs slow/long ranged ships in StarSector and SO basically pushes ships towards the speedy/short ranged side. Frigates are naturally towards that end already while cruisers tend towards the other end, so in many cases SO on a frigate or destroyer is playing to its strengths (and thus less of a paradigm shift), whereas SO on a cruiser tends to be turn about making the ship something it isn't (i.e. a big paradigm shift and used as ammo for some people to say stuff like "Eagle is fine because of SO").

So my thought is that SO should just be banned on cruisers. Yes that includes the Pather Colossus because let's be honest, it's not doing that much good on that ship anyway (and could easily be replaced by something like Unstable Injectors, plus the new Pather Venture won't have SO either).

Does SO need further nerfs if it can't be used on cruisers? I think probably not. Most it might need is a bit of a nerf on destroyers only, maybe a bigger PPT debuff on destroyers compared to frigates to represent how much harder it is to keep a larger ship from flying apart when you disable all the limits.

I agree with your stance, some cruisers just shouldn't be SO-ed since they throw the balance out of the window completely. But I won't lie, I'd miss some wacky builds that are possible with the current system. If SO changes enough, I'd honestly want it to remain equippable on cruisers.

And even if we went with your idea, that doesn't solve the biggest issue imo. And that is turning off you brain and running SO Lashers, high tech frigates and SO Hammerheads in the early game. Nothing is stopping you, there are no penalties, the fights get quicker, your ships are deadlier and die less often. It's not even about min maxing, I outright refuse to use SO early game because it makes the whole thing boring, there is no challenge (unless you attack something really huge).

I'm all for build diversity and having fun tools to play with. I also dislike having an item in a game that trivializes a whole chunk of it.

[Bummelei]

From both a flavour and gameplay standpoint I think Safety Overrides don't make sense on cruisers. Frigates and destroyers, fine; there's few enough moving parts that overlooking regulations is somewhat managable; but on a Cruiser there'd be so many little things going wrong that you'd have more crew trying to stop the ship from flying apart than actually manning the ship.

From a gameplay standpoint, there's a vague dichotomy of speedy/short ranged ships vs slow/long ranged ships in StarSector and SO basically pushes ships towards the speedy/short ranged side. Frigates are naturally towards that end already while cruisers tend towards the other end, so in many cases SO on a frigate or destroyer is playing to its strengths (and thus less of a paradigm shift), whereas SO on a cruiser tends to be turn about making the ship something it isn't (i.e. a big paradigm shift and used as ammo for some people to say stuff like "Eagle is fine because of SO").

Dude, why are explain all this to me? I'm playing this game for years, of course i know all this.
I'm talking about the fact that ships that need this hullmod (frigates) will suffer the most, and that ships that function quite adequately without it (cruisers) will not even notice the change.

So my thought is that SO should just be banned on cruisers. Yes that includes the Pather Colossus because let's be honest, it's not doing that much good on that ship anyway (and could easily be replaced by something like Unstable Injectors, plus the new Pather Venture won't have SO either).

Does SO need further nerfs if it can't be used on cruisers? I think probably not. Most it might need is a bit of a nerf on destroyers only, maybe a bigger PPT debuff on destroyers compared to frigates to represent how much harder it is to keep a larger ship from flying apart when you disable all the limits.

Cruisers is not what makes Safety Override so powerful. And take your hands off Colossus! This ship is already barely useful, without SO he isn't gonna be able to close distance for Hammer strike, and Unstable Injector will not give even half of it's former speed back.

[Embolism]

Dude, why are explain all this to me? I'm playing this game for years, of course i know all this.

... why are you taking my general, aimed-at-no-one post so personally? You're not even the OP and you're taking it like I'm patronising you specifically.

[Bummelei]

Dude, why are explain all this to me? I'm playing this game for years, of course i know all this.

... why are you taking my general, aimed-at-no-one post so personally? You're not even the OP and you're taking it like I'm patronising you specifically.

Apologizing. Looks like i misunderstood you.

[itBeABruhMoment]

SO currently turns a typical line ship into a hit and run ship...

More like hit and keep hitting until target is dead. Because with SO you can't afford to waste PPT/CR on running around, and would rather trade armor/hull for winning faster, if needed.

The ai uses them as hit and run ships. When the ai's flux is too high it just retreats. When a SO ship fights anything that does a decent amount of shield damage it basically follows a cycle of running in, shooting, getting over-fluxed, and retreating. It's not like the ai knows to flicker shields to vent when in front of an enemy.