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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Harpoon MRM overpowered?  (Read 9215 times)

Movementcat

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Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« on: August 20, 2012, 01:03:58 AM »

I think its too strong for a Small Missle Slot its way to much Facerolling. What you think about it? i have nearly every Frigate / Cruiser Equipped with it after Shields are down its a free kill.
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Catra

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2012, 01:11:19 AM »

that's what it is supposed to do. harpoons are finisher weapons.
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Movementcat

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2012, 01:12:28 AM »

Yea but they have even very nice Tracking.
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fromancer

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 01:15:13 AM »

ehh annihilator rack can be more devastating especially to those who rely heavily on pd
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Mattk50

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2012, 01:20:45 AM »

all missiles are pretty devastating imo. I tend to favor sabots vs bigger ships and harpoons vs smaller ships, because i roll with high tech and i dont have kinetic/explosive to specalize with, so I'd call it well balanced imo.
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Voyager I

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2012, 01:30:12 AM »

They're very strong against vulnerable, but shields and PD do a good job of keeping them in check, especially in larger fleet engagements with overlapping PD bubbles.  The only things they're really amazing against are Buffalos and Hounds, but those ships are supposed to be easy kills for players just starting to cut their teeth.


All together, it seems like things are working as intended.  Also, don't underrate the Salamander.  Engine hits are a pain, and if you're already engaging the target from another angle then they get to pick what part of their ship gets blown up.
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hadesian

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2012, 04:42:39 AM »

Sabots, Atropos, Swarmer, Reaper, Salamander. Those are my favourite missiles, though realistically I only use sabots and atropos
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TaLaR

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 06:26:20 AM »

Harpoons are mostly useful to quickly finish enemy whom you pretty much already defeated or are going to defeat soon enough (because you already managed to overflow his flux through other means to actually make harpoons viable). I find investing OP into these *other means* (vents/better long lasting weapons/hullmods) that help you to actually flux-overpower  enemy in the first place a better idea, than simply accelerating their death with harpoons after the most important part is already done...
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Vind

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 07:18:15 AM »

Harpoons are easily evaded by player - only AI struggles against them. The missile have good tracking but turning rate is poor considering missile speed. In a destroyer-sized ship and up - its your duty to be on alert for missiles - no heavy ship is invulnerable. Even then overloaded in a destroyer you can rotate to spread incoming damage and save the ship.
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TaLaR

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 09:09:37 AM »

Harpoons are easily evaded by player - only AI struggles against them. The missile have good tracking but turning rate is poor considering missile speed. In a destroyer-sized ship and up - its your duty to be on alert for missiles - no heavy ship is invulnerable. Even then overloaded in a destroyer you can rotate to spread incoming damage and save the ship.

Your info might be outdated. I also remember having easy time dodging them in 0.52.1a . But in 0.53 i rarely manage it on 150 speed frigate (Hyperion without flux boost, just ran simulations against harpoon-armed Venture). On same Hyperion 200 with flux boost is usually enough, but then you don't really need to dodge on zero flux (shield/teleport)...

While i agree that harpoons don't pose much threat to player, it's mostly due to shields/skimmer/teleport, not dodging...
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PCCL

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2012, 09:22:55 AM »

i found ai to use skimmer and teleport quite effectively.... or just small crafts in general I suppose...

for fun (if you can mod), try beating the sinking the Bis'mar mission as the Bis'mar (I tried it without the broadswords). I found it surprisingly difficult as there was basically sod-all I could do against the Chimera after I ran out of Pilums
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naufrago

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 10:06:48 AM »

Heh, TIL my opinion of missiles is the opposite of everyone else's. I never use missiles on any of my ships because I feel that vents and sustainability are more important than the burst damage missiles provide. My designs are very specialized to maximize the effectiveness of my energy weapons, needlers, and shields, and as a result, the longevity of my ships in combat. My fleet has 6 ships and it can take on anything and everything.

The theory behind my fleet is that it's better to focus on doing one thing really, really well than focus on several things and be less than stellar at all of them. The thing I focus on is flux stability (and flux efficiency, which is very related). Missiles, while they use no flux, use OP which I'd rather use on vents.
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Rowanas

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2012, 10:23:10 AM »

The theory behind my fleet is that it's better to focus on doing one thing really, really well than focus on several things and be less than stellar at all of them.

I agree, it must be said. I load missiles on my ships for the purpose of screening myself and forcing targets that aren't my primary to get lost for a moment. Mixing graviton beams with relatively low powered close support or PD beams offers a decent damage package, and increases the effectiveness of beam-type hullmods. That's why I'll only stat playing if I've rolled up a Wolf. Harpoons, for my purposes, aren't much to look at.
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naufrago

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2012, 10:36:58 AM »

The theory behind my fleet is that it's better to focus on doing one thing really, really well than focus on several things and be less than stellar at all of them.

I agree, it must be said. I load missiles on my ships for the purpose of screening myself and forcing targets that aren't my primary to get lost for a moment. Mixing graviton beams with relatively low powered close support or PD beams offers a decent damage package, and increases the effectiveness of beam-type hullmods. That's why I'll only stat playing if I've rolled up a Wolf. Harpoons, for my purposes, aren't much to look at.

Beam weapons, another thing I don't use much of. =p I prefer dealing hard flux because it forces enemies to eventually take a risk by dropping their shields. That, and it can be hard or impossible for a smaller ship armed with beams to compete with a bigger ship. The only beam weapons I use are the Burst PD, the occasional Graviton Beam, and a couple Tachyon Lances in my Paragons' turrets.

Adding Tachyon Lances actually runs a bit counter to my philosophy, but the Paragon is slow and can beat anything 1v1 anyway, so adding the Lances gives it some utility outside of brawling with other cap ships.
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TaLaR

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Re: Harpoon MRM overpowered?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2012, 11:08:45 AM »

Soft flux can be very powerful, but only if you provide truly overwhelming amounts of it - like Paragon maxed for soft flux (HILs, Gravitons, Tac lasers in all slots + max vents, etc). Basically anything short of other Paragon or flux maxed elite Odyssey faces following decision: either it keeps shield up allowing to slowly build up flux to overload without firing weapons OR drops shield and fires weapons at incredibly efficient Paragon shield(which it can't overload before it dies/runs out of flux) while eating tons of damage from beams. Both choices lead to unavoidable defeat. The only correct decision is to retreat:)
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