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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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What would you like to see in Blackrock?

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Total Members Voted: 1425


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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards  (Read 1790701 times)

HELMUT

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2430 on: April 29, 2016, 12:53:07 PM »

There's also the possibility that your Knights aren't reacting well to the weapons you're giving them. Even steady officers will usually try to take advantage of their longer range weapons, but if you give them some short ranged guns at the same time, they'll also try to use those, at the risk of getting out of position.

My AI controlled Knights only direct weapons were the dual medium turrets at the prow, always fitted with long range guns. Because everything else were either PDs or missiles, the AI only had those twin mediums to take in account in a direct fight, and kept its distance accordingly. I'm not sure what you added on the sides, but mounting a non-pd weapon, like a Sunjet for exemple, can screw with the AI.

Also keep in mind that the Gono is as tough as the Knight in the armor department, and noticeably faster, so they can disengage quicker if things go awry. Which may explain their surprising survivability in your campaign compared to the slower Knights.
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2431 on: April 29, 2016, 02:12:11 PM »

that's what i thought initially. my first loadouts were very similar to my Gonos', with Volley or Shard Guns in the hardpoints, a short Gale, missiles on the sides. hullmods and steady officer skills mostly for durability. since my Gonos faired very well with that, and Knight has almost identical durability, offensive power and ship system, i expected my Knights to be quite good at surviving. that didn't work.

but this is my current loadout:



Light Needlers, Extended Gale, Scalaron Pulses and PD. all on individual weapon groups. officer skill and SS+ balance give a total of +45% range on top.

yet it keeps literally ramming head first into things at full burn, right before getting completely overwhelmed by the now surrounding enemies. higher level of Evasive Action would likely help a bit with being able to back off more easily, but it won't solve the problem of getting into situations that are obviously a bad idea from the get-go.


that said, third battle now after writing the long post, and one of my Shrimps managed to ram into the last remaining enemy ship, an Apogee, right as it exploded. that didn't go so well either..... <__<
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2432 on: May 01, 2016, 09:16:50 AM »

i decided to experiment a bit and changed the system of my Knights to dual Sentinel Drones. and i gotta say, they are sooo much less suicidal now! :D

i haven't lost a single one since i made the change, despite enemy fleets becoming ever larger and stronger. a couple times i ordered one to retreat after it had taken some serious damage, but they don't seem to be getting into situations where they'll just get completely overwhelmed anymore. i think just removing the Arc Jet Burners made already a big difference by itself, and having some drones to distract and pressure nearby enemies is a nice bonus.

giving them dual Sentinel Drones might well be overpowered, i think it's a really strong system. on the other hand, Weevil and Typheus have single drones despite being frigate and destroyer, and the Eschaton has the duals despite still being a dedicated freighter, albeit a military one. maybe the Convergence' Bulwark Drone would be a better fit; it doesn't add much power by itself, but is still good at keeping its host ship out of trouble.

in any case, i can now safely say: i do actually like my Knights. there's certainly room for improvement, particularly in the turret layout, but it's a cool ship nonetheless. =)
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Cycerin

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2433 on: May 02, 2016, 11:53:30 AM »

yeah the case of burn drive derived systems is a tough nut to crack, they are very fun in player hands, can lead to funny situations in enemy AI hands, but they are often frustrating in allied AI hands.
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2434 on: May 02, 2016, 12:20:06 PM »

yeah, i've noticed similar problems with Paladins as well. even though they're tough Templar ships, they charge right into their death quite frequently.

related: ships getting to close to dying enemies
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Dark.Revenant

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2435 on: May 02, 2016, 12:51:03 PM »

The Paladin charge and all its strengths and weaknesses are deliberate.  It actually uses a custom AI that causes the ship to use the charge more.
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2436 on: May 02, 2016, 01:30:59 PM »

i guessed as much. well, not the part about the custom AI, but them being aggressive and reckless, as it fits with the Templar theme.

in the case of a normal hybrid carrier though, it's probably not a good idea. ^^
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HuoShengdi

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2437 on: May 06, 2016, 06:04:33 PM »

I'm noticing a bug with the Kurmaraja's Interdiction system: it doesn't seem to be affecting missiles properly anymore. Ballistic projectiles and ships are still slowed but missiles fly right by at normal speed.
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Cycerin

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2438 on: May 06, 2016, 09:28:53 PM »

Any projectile that generates its own thrust will be mostly unaffected, this is how it has always worked. It only stops burnt-out missiles or rockets that only burn for a short duration before they go ballistic.
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Ali

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2439 on: May 06, 2016, 10:47:39 PM »

Is there any plans to increase charges on Argus PD? like how vanilla burst pd got extra charges recently?

Hopin BRD tech stays superior to vanilla!!  ;D
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HuoShengdi

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2440 on: May 07, 2016, 12:54:05 AM »

Any projectile that generates its own thrust will be mostly unaffected, this is how it has always worked. It only stops burnt-out missiles or rockets that only burn for a short duration before they go ballistic.

Ah, I see, previously I'd been testing the Kurmaraja vs Onslaughts, which only have Annihilator rockets, so that might have skewed my perception of the system.

I don't see why it would basically stop fighters in their tracks but not missiles, though.

EDIT: After some more testing, I've noticed that it has a much more pronounced effect on low-thrust missiles like the Pilum and Ballista. I think it was mainly the high-thrust harpoons (probably fired from a ship with a high missile skill officer) that made me think the system wasn't working properly.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 01:06:08 AM by HuoShengdi »
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Cycerin

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2441 on: May 07, 2016, 02:18:19 AM »

I don't see why it would basically stop fighters in their tracks but not missiles, though.

Dunno, that's just how it works.
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ValkyriaL

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2442 on: May 07, 2016, 02:25:28 AM »

maybe a fighters mass vs its engine power is to low to escape the system? while a missile weights nothing with a powerful engine out the back.
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ProdigyToby

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2443 on: May 07, 2016, 01:59:37 PM »

  So what was the point of voidspear missile change?  I used to use these as a generic missile to add some extra dps, now they are completely something different.  If you try to use these in a close range situation (I think the description says its a close support missile?) they literally fly in a slow arc in front of your ship in groups of 4 like "hey shoot us down".  If you try to use them vs anything with more than one decent point defense maybe like 1 or 2 missiles will actually make it, and they also feel like they do a lot less damage.  The only time ive seen these new voidspears do anything useful is when using them from a pretty decent range (so they can do that silly arc at a safe range) and hitting a larger ship because of their new slow speed.  Even then the damage is pretty mediocre (4 of these hitting a sunder did about 15% shield damage?  Which was quickly regenerated), and very bad vs hulls.  I thought they were fine before, they had a purpose, which was just extra on command dps when you needed it, now they are so awkward and ineffective, unless maybe you manage to hit something with like 12 of them or something. 

  I really like the new destroyer.  Decent tanky-ness, its fast, you can put shredders on there to be a good support ship.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 02:16:50 PM by ProdigyToby »
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Amazigh

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2444 on: May 07, 2016, 05:25:35 PM »

  If you try to use these in a close range situation (I think the description says its a close support missile?)
I think this is your main mistake, "close support" in starsector refers to engaging at say, 1000 distance at minimum, so you'll be out of range of their close range heavy hitting weapons, but can provide support with your longer range weapons.
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