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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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What would you like to see in Blackrock?

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards  (Read 1790618 times)

HELMUT

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2505 on: August 06, 2016, 01:28:25 PM »

I dunno, the Gono is pretty good when played right but not that good. In the same category, i personally prefer the more polyvalent Enforcer, it tends to be a safer bet during late game.
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Grizzlyadamz

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2506 on: August 06, 2016, 02:00:15 PM »

I disagree.
The variants of the enforcer available in the sim never caused me any problems.
Most frigates I used had weapon ranges >500, and they could steadily melt through the Enforcers' armor & kite them down. The Enforcer just doesn't have the speed/range to be a pressing threat.
Unlike the Sunder/Hammerhead, which at least had enough range to keep frigs at bay.

The Gonodactylus though, whew. The default sim-build for that is probably scarier than either of those- it's got speed, armor, PD, range & damage.
Getting one of my own, and it handily brought down any of the other destroyers I faced (I think my char is lvl 15, so I don't have any lvl-10 combat/tech abilities and only ~9% extra OP).

If you want polyvalent, this thing seems a lot better to me, as it eats both slow destroyers & fast frigs for lunch.

How does the Enforcer do against frigs in the late-game?
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2507 on: August 06, 2016, 03:18:01 PM »

I disagree.
The variants of the enforcer available in the sim never caused me any problems.

You can't just assume the strength of a ship depending on the sim variants only, especially the Enforcer's crappy base variants. Try it with a bunch of different weapons like a mix of flak, HVDs and harpoons, it's a good blend of range and firepower which matters throughout the campaign. As for frigates, they're usually an afterthought when you reach late game anyway. Cruisers and capital ships are the big game changers you have to keep in check later on, and unlike the Enforcer, the Gonodactylus isn't that great at engaging something bigger than itself.
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Cycerin

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2508 on: August 06, 2016, 03:25:01 PM »

The sim variant Enforcers are bad. A player fleet Enforcer would usually run 3 weapons (HVD and mauler) and 2 PD, or perhaps the greedier frontal flak + 2 mauler 2 HVD variant with max range spec. An Enforcer like that can be almost impossible to approach for anything smaller than a cruiser, if it lies within a formation of other ships. The Gonodactylus is actually more survivable than the Enforcer owing to its superior shield/flux stats, comparable toughness and greater agility. But offensively, the Enforcer can do more from greater range, giving it an extra layer of safety, especially against cruisers and above as HELMUT points out. It really depends on your fleet, if you are not deathballing then a random Gonodactylus is probably a better investment than a random Enforcer, since Enforcers can quickly become useless if they are out of position.

E: Shrimp might be a little too efficient for its cost, but its awkward weapon layout will always make it slightly unreliable compared to symmetrical destroyers. It's really easy to attack the ship from its rear or from the flank with the Hammerclaw on it. But I've been thinking of making the ship more ungainly, now that its ship system has gotten pretty good. I might end up changing the ship system to a maneuvering jets esque approach and then making the ship really slow when the system is disengaged. I think it would sell the concept of the ship better. Then I'll put Burner on some new ship (say, a blockade runner/scoutship?)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 03:30:27 PM by Cycerin »
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2509 on: August 06, 2016, 04:29:32 PM »

in a tanking role at least, Shrimp beats Enforcer easily. it has even more armor, a much better shield, and its maneuverability still allows it to easily disengage from anything larger than a frigate once its flux does get high. that combination also allows it to engage larger targets quite effectively, actually.

Enforcer might have more firepower, but not by too much, unless you entirely forgo PD.
Enforcer is also better at is long-range kiting, due to it's medium mounts. but even that is only true against slow targets; frigates, most other destroyers and even quite a few cruisers are faster than Enforcer.

edit:
I might end up changing the ship system to a maneuvering jets esque approach and then making the ship really slow when the system is disengaged. I think it would sell the concept of the ship better.
i like that idea. the "really heavy but really powerful burst jets" worked out great for the new Desdinova, imo. it would be nice if the AI would be a bit more conservative with its system charges though, it just seems to use them whenever they're available (same issue with vanilla Maneuvering Jets). would be nice if it kept one for when it really needs to back the *** off right *** now. ^^
Quote
blockade runner
yes, please! O:

that's the one ship role i'd like most to be added in vanilla. if i ever do make my own ships, the first is gonna be a cruiser sized blockade runner / military freighter.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 04:38:16 PM by Sy »
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Grizzlyadamz

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2510 on: August 06, 2016, 04:48:34 PM »

I've been thinking of making the ship more ungainly, now that its ship system has gotten pretty good. I might end up changing the ship system to a maneuvering jets esque approach and then making the ship really slow when the system is disengaged. I think it would sell the concept of the ship better.

That makes me nervous, as the shrimp's speed (coupled with the striking power) is what I like about it the most, but it does make sense.


that's the one ship role i'd like most to be added in vanilla. if i ever do make my own ships, the first is gonna be a cruiser sized blockade runner / military freighter.
Yeah that's kinda what the Gono is right now. Except with a greater focus on combat & a lesser focus on freight-running.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 04:51:22 PM by Grizzlyadamz »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2511 on: August 07, 2016, 12:19:19 AM »

Even with all the mods I'm running, the Enforcer is still my Go-to destroyer for the AI. With a few skills it is terrific in duos of Aggressive/SO/Chaingun/Machineguns supported by a Steady/HVD/Maulers.

In my latest playthrough, my SO aggressive one was the only ship I have that has never been destroyed or even in danger despite taking on whole fleets by itself.
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2512 on: August 07, 2016, 06:43:41 AM »

In my latest playthrough, my SO aggressive one was the only ship I have that has never been destroyed or even in danger despite taking on whole fleets by itself.
i had a similar experience with two Gonos. they were the first combat ships in my fleet besides the flagship, and despite using a very short-range loadoud (Shard Guns, Shredder Battery and Ion Cannon) i only lost one throughout the playthrough.

SO Enforcers are pretty awesome, but in late game their low PPT becomes a problem (though that likey depends on fleet composition).
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Cycerin

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2513 on: August 14, 2016, 10:03:46 AM »

Even with all the mods I'm running, the Enforcer is still my Go-to destroyer for the AI. With a few skills it is terrific in duos of Aggressive/SO/Chaingun/Machineguns supported by a Steady/HVD/Maulers.

In my latest playthrough, my SO aggressive one was the only ship I have that has never been destroyed or even in danger despite taking on whole fleets by itself.

The Enforcer is really funny as a "missile sponge" with a loadout full of Hailfire Chainguns in an aggressive officer with shield bypass and max survivability. The enemy will usually waste almost all their finisher missiles on it.
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borgrel

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2514 on: August 24, 2016, 05:57:49 AM »

* borgrel does a happy dance

i just found an imaginos frigate for the first time ......
i thought i liked the morpheus

this is better!
many thanks cycerin
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Megas

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2515 on: August 24, 2016, 06:13:50 AM »

Gonodactylus is effective, no worse than Hammerhead (probably better than Hammerhead).  It can brawl effectively with LAGs, railgun/light needler, and a few Salamanders or other to mess with targets.
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HuoShengdi

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2516 on: August 24, 2016, 11:13:42 PM »

* borgrel does a happy dance

i just found an imaginos frigate for the first time ......
i thought i liked the morpheus

this is better!
many thanks cycerin

The Imaginos is too fragile for my tastes, I play pretty aggressively and always end up overextending myself and suiciding it. The Asura, on the other hand...
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Sy

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2517 on: August 25, 2016, 02:51:50 AM »

The Imaginos is too fragile for my tastes, I play pretty aggressively and always end up overextending myself and suiciding it. The Asura, on the other hand...
same here. never could get Imaginos to work properly. Morpheus is much less susceptible to dying instantly when i screw up, and easier to deal damage with.
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TaLaR

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2518 on: August 25, 2016, 03:09:33 AM »

Imaginos feels a lot like formal Hyperion equal, but with huge caveats that make it much less useful.

Defensively it's sort of teleportation is not very useful due to vulnerable charge-up.
Offensively, while it can get behind enemy shield, it doesn't have any suitable weapons to capitalize on opening (as Hyperion with Heavy Blasters can).
Plus it pops when something with HE weapons looks at it funny.

It is original in many ways, but just nowhere near cost-effective.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 03:11:31 AM by TaLaR »
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.7.2a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.8.5 (04.04.2016)
« Reply #2519 on: August 25, 2016, 03:52:21 AM »

The Imaginos is most efficient as an anti-missiles back handed slap, and is quite a hard counter to Exigency or Diable Avionics.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 05:17:27 AM by Tartiflette »
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