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Author Topic: Procedural campaign?  (Read 8329 times)

Ixiohm

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Procedural campaign?
« on: October 09, 2011, 06:38:57 AM »

Hello Alex and team :)

I was wondering how much of the campaign layer you plan on having 'hand crafted' and how much will be procedurally generated? If anything.
Is there any plans to have things like star systems, encounters or tactical missions getting procedurally generated as you play?

I understand if you don't want to give this information away at this point, but would be interested in any comments you may like to share on this topic ;)
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Alex

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2011, 08:46:32 AM »

I don't mind talking about it, with the understanding that things can (and probably will) change :)

The current thinking is to hand-craft the key systems - such as ones with core worlds, for example - and then use procedural generation for the rest. Fleets and such would mostly originate from planets, so I don't see a lot of hand-crafting for those - aside from setting up an "ideal" composition for, say, a Hegemony patrol, and the AI trying to create those types of fleets when possible.
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SeaBee

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 02:56:58 AM »

That sounds good to me. I really dig procedural stuff, adds a lot of replay-ability and offers surprises now and then.
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Avan

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 09:53:33 AM »

Very much like Transcendence's approach (only certain important systems are hand-specified, and even those have a large amount of game-game variation in object placement & enemy station selection; everything else is almost 100% random) - I like that.

ollobrains

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 06:00:43 PM »

im for the procedural generation. More systems the better to but content is king and random content is a bit more adapatble
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Sandremo

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2011, 12:07:06 PM »

Personally i'm looking forward to the open-world aspect of the game. :D The only thing i have a hard time getting used to is the limited number of "commands" you can give to your fleet mates.. "YARR LET'S MAKE THIS ÜBER BIG PLAN THAT WILL CONQUER THE UNIVERSE!... Out of commands points fack.. and i'm not even half way there.." :D... Yea... i forget to watch the little counter top right hand corner of the screen untill it's too late. :D

Question is.... Will there be somekind of "Core" or "main story" to this game? Or is it really just about the open-world? Heh personally i'm being hopefull and hope that i'll get the option to conquer star systems in my name! >=D
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Avan

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 05:23:31 PM »

You will.

Zarcon

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2011, 04:07:12 PM »

I don't mind talking about it, with the understanding that things can (and probably will) change :)

The current thinking is to hand-craft the key systems - such as ones with core worlds, for example - and then use procedural generation for the rest. Fleets and such would mostly originate from planets, so I don't see a lot of hand-crafting for those - aside from setting up an "ideal" composition for, say, a Hegemony patrol, and the AI trying to create those types of fleets when possible.

I'm kinda dredging up an old post here, but reading this got me a bit curious.  ;D  Will the various A.I. Factions operate within the constraints of the same economy that the player will be a part of, with their worlds and outposts generating income, and their ships and fleets incurring maintenance and repair costs?  Or will their ships and fleets be pulled out of thin air as it were, and be sent out for you to interact with?  It would be alright if the latter were true, but clearly even more awesome if something like the former ended up being the case.  :)   

An earlier post you made concerning enemy ships retaining battle damage after a mission really makes me lean towards the former case being the truth currently however.  :)

Anyways, just a random thought that piqued my interest.  ;) And my apologies if this has already been gone over formerly, sometimes my forum search skills are not the best, ha ha.
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CommComms

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2011, 04:22:48 PM »

And my apologies if this has already been gone over formerly, sometimes my forum search skills are not the best, ha ha.

For what it's worth I suspect that the full implementations of such systems are so far away that the most Alex probably has is a "How I'd like it to work" and maybe a "How I could most easily make it work"  but no real plans or solid information about it.

Of course I'd be entirely happy if he were to show up, call me wrong, and say that it's the first one.
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Avan

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2011, 04:26:29 PM »

It would be great if you could have the AI play by the rules ;)

For example, I basically planned out an entire back-end AI vs. AI 4x game to simulate various states and their interactions for my Transcendence mod (as the player goes around with a single ship, and maybe a few wingmen and autons in that game, as opposed to having the option to build large fleets, or even states, like in Starfarer).

Alex

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2011, 10:34:12 AM »

I like when the AI plays by the same rules as the player - that way, you get insight into how to beat the AI by figuring out what you yourself need to advance. On the other hand, I'm not a fan of simulating excessive behind-the-scenes detail if it doesn't add something readily apparent to the player. So, take that for what it's worth :)
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Zarcon

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2011, 10:46:50 AM »

I like when the AI plays by the same rules as the player - that way, you get insight into how to beat the AI by figuring out what you yourself need to advance. On the other hand, I'm not a fan of simulating excessive behind-the-scenes detail if it doesn't add something readily apparent to the player. So, take that for what it's worth :)

And let the rampant dissection of this dissimulation commence!  :)
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There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.
Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

Thana

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2011, 11:11:42 AM »

And let the rampant dissection of this dissimulation commence!  :)

*produces a blackboard and chalk and starts drawing elaborate diagrams filled with tiny text across the entirety of the board in an attempt to fully explain his plans to take advantage of the AI's weaknesses regarding the logistics of ship crews' coffee supply, toilet paper disposal and the times the AI goes to the toilet just like the player sometimes has to*  ;D
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Avan

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2011, 11:37:02 AM »

well, I mean, things the player has to do at that level, like construct ships, run freighters around, assemble & move fleets around, etc, should be in, though simulating things like internal politics and coffee breaks would be unnecessary.

Basically, if it has a major impact on gameplay and makes sense to have (or the simpler alternatives simply don't cut it), then it should probably be in (ie, in Transcendence, there are a lot of simultaneous wars being waged, but yet no fleet movements are seen, no systems are captured, etc, resulting in some rather jarring plot-gameplay segregation. For the main game, this can work, because you only see a fraction of the systems in the quarantine zone, but in TSB you can visit all of them, so simulating the wars becomes much more necessary. It also means that tie-in missions can be added, and by fully simulating strategic level decisions, it provides a much more sensible and realistic sense of scope: ie, a back-water system of no strategic importance at a dead-end stargate node is unlikely to have anyone vying for it, while a hub system or one with valuable resources will be heavily sought after. Since the gate topology and system contents are procedurally generated, it can't be pre-scripted.)

ollobrains

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Re: Procedural campaign?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2011, 02:04:04 AM »

i Think the development of the game has seemed pretty open so far with many options.  What id like to see is as much randomness as possible within sensible boundries.
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