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Author Topic: Starfarer 0.53.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 134720 times)

Reshy

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2012, 11:41:15 AM »

Believe me, I want the AI to get to the point where it can outsmart players.  Anyway, very glad to help fix this, will make the AI more interesting.

Well, that's an unattainable ideal - but yeah. The smarter the better, just have to watch out for diminishing returns. At some point, spending X number of days for a small improvement just wouldn't be worth it. The good thing is that combat is generally nailed down now, so ship systems should be the last AI-disrupting major feature.

Interesting, tomorrow can we get an explanation of the bugs you mentioned?  Also, goodnight!

It turns out that the code evaluating which missiles are threatening didn't exclude unguided missiles fired by your ship. It was a really old bit of code, and it'd worked all this time, so I was not inclined to suspect it... What's interesting is the Onslaught's launchers, set far back, are the only case I can think of where the effects of this are easy to see - because the missiles happen to pass right next to the center of the ship. And even so, it takes the Omni Shields mod to really see it. I suspect that this'll have a generally beneficial effect on the AI, though - the less-visible cases were probably also detrimental.

It's tiny, super manueverable, and is capable of throwing the Force at people. Who needs shields?
I have to admit that under player control and some aug'd engines, the super tight controls mean that it's hard as hell to hit. Hard enough in fact I'm unsure whether the shield hit will hurt it overly

Just took a second look at it and noticed it had 0.4 absorb ratio on its shields. This combined with its speed is problably the reason for the nerf. Problably not be a major nerf either, most likely a smaller adjust.

Yeah, exactly. It's still very survivable, but hopefully not to a point where it's almost impossible to kill even with something that *should* be overwhelming, like the Hammerhead + dual kinetic mediums + ammo feeder.


I showed it doing that on a paragon as well so...  It wasn't just on the Onslaught.


The omen usually takes most of it's damage from friendly fire.  However don't give it too much of a nerf to it's shields/upkeep so it doesn't suddenly become too weak.
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KDR_11k

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2012, 06:10:25 AM »

17 FP may be a bit much for the Hyperion, while its firepower may rival that of a light cruiser (specifically the Falcon which is so weak that it barely passes as a cruiser) it's also extremely fragile and requires a highly skilled pilot to keep alive. Maybe something on the order of 12-13 FP would be fair for now, see how that works out and if it's still too little you can still increase it. Consider that the Apogee costs 16 FP, that thing's a powerful allrounder that can wield heavy weapons and doesn't require much more than turning the shields on to stay alive.
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TaLaR

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2012, 06:19:02 AM »

But Apogee can't do anything against decently outfitted Paragon 1vs1, no matter player-piloted or not. Hyperion in skilled hands can destroy it without suffering any damage...Yes, it will take a lot of time, and you go boom as soon as you make any mistake, but still unlike with Apogee it's actually doable.
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2012, 08:49:55 AM »

It's 15, not 17, so I agree :) That aside...

When considering the firepower, I think it also makes sense to consider the ability of the ship to deliver it. The Hyperion's armaments aren't quite cruiser-level - it's closer to a middle-of-the-road destroyer - but the ease with which it can bring it to bear is off the charts.

There's also its mobility - it can get to any objective seconds after the battle starts, or to any fight you want to be in, in time to make a difference in the outcome. The mobility is an important component of its effectiveness - simply comparing firepower and survivability to a cruiser ignores that.
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Xareh

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2012, 08:53:33 AM »

Not to mention it can easily pack four atropos missiles or two reapers, which can utterly cripple a paragon/onslaught if they both hit, as it'd be as simple as 'hulls gone, whittle away'
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Archduke Astro

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2012, 12:06:24 PM »

It's very important that this development thread remain on-topic. Failure to do so makes it all the harder for Alex to do his job. I've just removed several such posts. Additional off-topic posts are subject to removal. If you have something off-topic to bring up, please do it in a separate thread on the appropriate subforum. Thank you, folks.
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Reshy

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2012, 01:02:01 PM »

Alex, I noticed something weird with how ships fire weapons.  Specifically explosives.  On ships that have an odd shape like the Conquest it's possible for the AI to fire at it, but not able to hit it's hull because it's shields swing out so far from the hull.  Because of this it wastes a lot of flux and ammo on shots that couldn't land anyway.  So can non-shield effective weapons such as Explosive damage not fire until close enough to the actual hull to hit rather than the shield?
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naufrago

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2012, 01:21:14 PM »

Alex, I noticed something weird with how ships fire weapons.  Specifically explosives.  On ships that have an odd shape like the Conquest it's possible for the AI to fire at it, but not able to hit it's hull because it's shields swing out so far from the hull.  Because of this it wastes a lot of flux and ammo on shots that couldn't land anyway.  So can non-shield effective weapons such as Explosive damage not fire until close enough to the actual hull to hit rather than the shield?

This is something that has been brought up before. Weapons fire when they think they'll hit within a certain radius of the center of the ship (the same thing happens with the defending ship to determine whether it should block a shot with its shields). It's an estimate, which is sometimes wrong.

I don't think he intends to change the functionality at this time. Maybe it would be worth making the radius always or mostly within the bounds of the ship, for the ship doing the shooting anyway.
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Cerevox

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2012, 01:49:40 PM »

Or perhaps tie the accuracy/radius target size of the guns to the level of the crew? I have noticed that my elite crew seem just as bad at firing on moving/edge of range targets as my green crew. It is actually somewhat painful to watch my elite crew on my conquest fire hundreds of rounds at a strafing frigate and hit nothing. Decreasing the radius that is targeted may make this worse, since the only time they hit strafing frigates was with random shots or beams anyway, making them more conservative will probably mean that ballistic weapons never hit on target unless facing something moving slow or straight in and out.
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #69 on: August 12, 2012, 03:25:48 PM »

About the accuracy issue: yeah, this is something that's potentially computationally expensive. I haven't looked at it in great detail - it'll probably require doing a non-axis-aligned rectangular bounding box check (assuming actual bounds checks are too expensive - which would need to be investigated...). At this point, it's just a low priority item. I'm not sure when I'd be able to justify spending time on it, if at all.
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Barracuda

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #70 on: August 12, 2012, 03:55:09 PM »

This is my first time posting something like this, so if this the wrong place to put it im sorry.


SOOO A Venture and 2 Close Support Lasher along with some other ships enter a battle with a Buffalo Fire support destroyer and others. As soon as the buffalo come's with in sight of my fleet.... My Lashers fire every single missile they have at it in no time. My venture fires about half of both of its racks at it as well. Only take half of all the missiles reach it and the buffalo gets sent to oblivion. The rest of the missiles run out of fuel and float off into space.... Leaving my Lashers with out and real fire power and my venture half way to losing it's.

What im asking for is there going to be a fix to ships firing WAY too many missiles at one single ship?
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Thaago

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #71 on: August 12, 2012, 04:04:48 PM »

Re shield/hull targeting: The burst pd laser can sometimes be an offender when it comes to targeting a ship with shields down; it will blow all its charges at the range of the shield and then have nothing for once the hull is in range. Its not a problem for continuous fire weapons as much, but could charge based weapons get a small offset between firing range and maximum range? It will mean that some of the range is 'wasted' in certain situations, but it will ensure that the precious charges are better spent.
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #72 on: August 12, 2012, 04:08:38 PM »

SOOO A Venture and 2 Close Support Lasher along with some other ships enter a battle with a Buffalo Fire support destroyer and others. As soon as the buffalo come's with in sight of my fleet.... My Lashers fire every single missile they have at it in no time. My venture fires about half of both of its racks at it as well. Only take half of all the missiles reach it and the buffalo gets sent to oblivion. The rest of the missiles run out of fuel and float off into space.... Leaving my Lashers with out and real fire power and my venture half way to losing it's.

What im asking for is there going to be a fix to ships firing WAY too many missiles at one single ship?

Hey there - thanks for the reminder, was meaning to take another look at that. Changed it so it's less likely to waste all its missiles on a target like that.

Re shield/hull targeting: The burst pd laser can sometimes be an offender when it comes to targeting a ship with shields down; it will blow all its charges at the range of the shield and then have nothing for once the hull is in range. Its not a problem for continuous fire weapons as much, but could charge based weapons get a small offset between firing range and maximum range? It will mean that some of the range is 'wasted' in certain situations, but it will ensure that the precious charges are better spent.

Yeah... I'm wary of a "fix" that already comes with its own built-in issues :)
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Sendrien

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #73 on: August 12, 2012, 10:01:34 PM »

A quick word on the Fortress Shield - has anyone actually found this system to ever be useful on a Paragon? Even if a Paragon has to solo an entire fleet, it is always better to simply stop firing your weapons and tank the damage than to deploy your Fortress Shield. As such, it doesn't really give the player any decisions to make - it makes no sense to use it in any situation (in its current state). I find myself wishing that the Paragon were instead equipped with Sensor Drones, PD Drones, or even High Energy Focus, as any of these would make for a much more interesting experience flying a Paragon.

The big problem with the Fortress Shield is that it generates hard flux at a rapid rate. The number of ships required to be shooting a Paragon simultaneously in order to replicate that amount of hard flux generation is so high that you will likely never encounter a situation where turning on Fortress Shield could actually reduce your flux increase. And since you lose all weapon shooting capability during this time, the penalties for using Fortress Shield are simply too high, considering there is no actual benefit to be had.
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TaLaR

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #74 on: August 12, 2012, 10:06:23 PM »

It can essentially make low rate of fire powerful weapons like gauss cannon useless by pulsing for about 0.25 second (as short as you can...). AI is quite good at that.

In fact it pretty much functions like better version of phase cloak (no activation cost, ship has powerful shield, no need to wait while shot/missile passes over ship, can regen soft flux)...
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 10:13:44 PM by TaLaR »
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