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Author Topic: Starfarer 0.53.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 131124 times)

Reshy

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2012, 06:37:56 PM »

Not *that* much, but there are (considerably, I think) less cases where it'd still point the nose at the enemy.

What about the bug that causes a ship to try and broadside with frontal weapons?  (I don't think it's the armor turning, as I showed it occurring even on an undamaged ship)
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2012, 06:58:26 PM »

Not aware of any such bug. I'm fairly certain that whatever is happening is NOT the result of it "trying to broadside" - that's pretty much not possible, given how that's coded - but there could be other reasons for this behavior, especially if multiple ships or incoming missiles are involved.

If you can point me to a 1-1 matchup - preferably using stock variants, where this happens reliably, with both ships under full AI control - I'd be happy to take a look.
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Reshy

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2012, 07:30:49 PM »

Not aware of any such bug. I'm fairly certain that whatever is happening is NOT the result of it "trying to broadside" - that's pretty much not possible, given how that's coded - but there could be other reasons for this behavior, especially if multiple ships or incoming missiles are involved.

If you can point me to a 1-1 matchup - preferably using stock variants, where this happens reliably, with both ships under full AI control - I'd be happy to take a look.




I believe it's because the ship wants to turn around because it's at high flux, but because it vents fast enough it wants to turn back around.  Since Vents are more common than capacitors in custom builds that would explain why it happens more often on customs.






Sim battle, both of us activated burn drive.  My (autopilot) ship swerved away for unknown reasons.  Guessing it's Flux, Armor, or Explosive related.


And no I can't fix the print screen bug, I believe it's on your end.  Only happens on starfarer.
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2012, 07:42:20 PM »

Thanks - but a screenshot really doesn't do much to help with AI stuff.

As far as the screenshot bug, well, you're the only one that happens to, that I know of :) I'd guess it's an OpenGL-related driver issue, or some such.
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Reshy

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2012, 07:58:19 PM »

Thanks - but a screenshot really doesn't do much to help with AI stuff.

As far as the screenshot bug, well, you're the only one that happens to, that I know of :) I'd guess it's an OpenGL-related driver issue, or some such.


On standard ships ships turn tail when they're wanting to back off.  However since standard configurations have less vents than most custom ones it's not as egregious. It's most noticeable versus ships of larger sizes.  It's most noticeable on faster turning ships such as frigates. 


I'd suggest trying the Strike/Assault Wolf versus the Close Support Lasher.
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2012, 08:45:31 PM »

You're absolutely right - some ships were trying a frigate-style fleeing behavior when it was uncalled for - especially larger ships with omni shields - which explains why I hadn't seen it. There was also a bug where frigates would turn their nose away for non-armor-related reasons - considering "fleeing" even though they weren't supposed to be doing it in that particular situation (a frigate vs frigate fight).

Thanks for pointing me to the Assault Wolf vs CS Lasher fight - that was a perfect example to illustrate the problem.

Fixed both of those, and improved a few other things as well (ships should no longer back off in a straight line nearly as often, for example).

So, again - thank you!
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Reshy

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2012, 09:11:54 PM »

You're absolutely right - some ships were trying a frigate-style fleeing behavior when it was uncalled for - especially larger ships with omni shields - which explains why I hadn't seen it. There was also a bug where frigates would turn their nose away for non-armor-related reasons - considering "fleeing" even though they weren't supposed to be doing it in that particular situation (a frigate vs frigate fight).

Thanks for pointing me to the Assault Wolf vs CS Lasher fight - that was a perfect example to illustrate the problem.

Fixed both of those, and improved a few other things as well (ships should no longer back off in a straight line nearly as often, for example).

So, again - thank you!


Oh, I'm glad to know I'm not just crazy now @@;  Sorry that I wasn't very clear previously...


Can anything be done about Annihilators (autofire) on an Omni-shield Onslaught?




« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 09:25:28 PM by JamesRaynor »
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2012, 09:21:26 PM »

My apologies for not understanding it sooner. I was just assuming it was something else... there are lots of reasons the AI might do the occasional odd-looking thing. But yeah. Glad you stuck with it :)

Can anything be done about Annihilators (autofire) on an Omni-shield Onslaught?

Actually working on that as we speak - that's unearthed some unnerving bugs (affecting far more than just the Onslaught) of the "how the hell did this work at all" variety. Stay tuned - though I'll probably drop it for today and wrap it up tomorrow.
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Reshy

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2012, 09:35:43 PM »

My apologies for not understanding it sooner. I was just assuming it was something else... there are lots of reasons the AI might do the occasional odd-looking thing. But yeah. Glad you stuck with it :)

Can anything be done about Annihilators (autofire) on an Omni-shield Onslaught?

Actually working on that as we speak - that's unearthed some unnerving bugs (affecting far more than just the Onslaught) of the "how the hell did this work at all" variety. Stay tuned - though I'll probably drop it for today and wrap it up tomorrow.


Believe me, I want the AI to get to the point where it can outsmart players.  Anyway, very glad to help fix this, will make the AI more interesting.


Interesting, tomorrow can we get an explanation of the bugs you mentioned?  Also, goodnight!
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DJ Die

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2012, 01:00:42 AM »

While level scaling may affect how strong the various beings in Oblivion and Skyrim are, that doesn't affect the mechanics (how you play the game, for instance) or the story (oh no, demons/dragons).  A lot of that just sounded like you venting your frustration over the changes made in Skyrim or Oblivion.  Don't get me wrong, Morrowind was cool, but it was far from perfect.  They're working on making their ideal game.  You're a consumer, so if you buy it, you're supporting more games like that being made.  If you want to show your displeasure, don't buy the games.  Ignore them as they come out.

In the end, though, this argument is moot, because no one ever said Level Scaling was going to be included in Starfarer.

*EDIT* for clarity of my point.
oh i never said i actually bought Skyrim or Oblivion....I did play them yes but it was friends copy not mine....
and while i didnt say morrowind was perfect it was FAR better RPG than Oblivion and Skyrim combined...
if by ideal you mean turning good RPG into strange FPS then yes thats what it is....

well scaling and prevention of player from getting strong have been mentioned

and as i said elsewhere Alex and his team DESERVE my money.... Bethesda, EA Games and some other dont simply because they either dont make good games anymore or riddle them with so annoying DRMs that i wont buy the game anyway....

funny thing is that DRMs actually make people pirate the games more not less....
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Jonlissla

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2012, 05:42:25 AM »

  • Omen: reduced shield efficiency somewhat, increased shield upkeep

May I ask for the reasoning behind this? I never got the impression that the Omen was that much of a beast, although it was a great anti-fighter frigate.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 06:36:23 AM by Jonlissla »
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IIE16 Yoshi

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2012, 06:04:35 AM »

It's tiny, super manueverable, and is capable of throwing the Force at people. Who needs shields?
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Xareh

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2012, 06:51:38 AM »

I have to admit that under player control and some aug'd engines, the super tight controls mean that it's hard as hell to hit. Hard enough in fact I'm unsure whether the shield hit will hurt it overly
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Jonlissla

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #58 on: August 11, 2012, 08:09:42 AM »

It's tiny, super manueverable, and is capable of throwing the Force at people. Who needs shields?
I have to admit that under player control and some aug'd engines, the super tight controls mean that it's hard as hell to hit. Hard enough in fact I'm unsure whether the shield hit will hurt it overly

Just took a second look at it and noticed it had 0.4 absorb ratio on its shields. This combined with its speed is problably the reason for the nerf. Problably not be a major nerf either, most likely a smaller adjust.
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Alex

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Re: Starfarer 0.53.1a (In Development) Patch Notes
« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2012, 08:56:23 AM »

Believe me, I want the AI to get to the point where it can outsmart players.  Anyway, very glad to help fix this, will make the AI more interesting.

Well, that's an unattainable ideal - but yeah. The smarter the better, just have to watch out for diminishing returns. At some point, spending X number of days for a small improvement just wouldn't be worth it. The good thing is that combat is generally nailed down now, so ship systems should be the last AI-disrupting major feature.

Interesting, tomorrow can we get an explanation of the bugs you mentioned?  Also, goodnight!

It turns out that the code evaluating which missiles are threatening didn't exclude unguided missiles fired by your ship. It was a really old bit of code, and it'd worked all this time, so I was not inclined to suspect it... What's interesting is the Onslaught's launchers, set far back, are the only case I can think of where the effects of this are easy to see - because the missiles happen to pass right next to the center of the ship. And even so, it takes the Omni Shields mod to really see it. I suspect that this'll have a generally beneficial effect on the AI, though - the less-visible cases were probably also detrimental.

It's tiny, super manueverable, and is capable of throwing the Force at people. Who needs shields?
I have to admit that under player control and some aug'd engines, the super tight controls mean that it's hard as hell to hit. Hard enough in fact I'm unsure whether the shield hit will hurt it overly

Just took a second look at it and noticed it had 0.4 absorb ratio on its shields. This combined with its speed is problably the reason for the nerf. Problably not be a major nerf either, most likely a smaller adjust.

Yeah, exactly. It's still very survivable, but hopefully not to a point where it's almost impossible to kill even with something that *should* be overwhelming, like the Hammerhead + dual kinetic mediums + ammo feeder.
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