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Author Topic: Stagnant Development  (Read 35297 times)

Uomoz

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2012, 11:43:58 PM »

The unhappy 1% will always make more noise of the happy 99%.
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Alex

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2012, 09:05:58 AM »

Anyway, as a consumer I can sympathise with the recent shift in forum attitude towards Starfarer since there's been no development aside from combat in months.

I don't actually see a shift in attitude. If you were to look back through the forum's history, you'd see something very similar crop up every couple of months, almost from the very beginning of the forum's existence.

That said, I do sympathize with those that want to see Starfarer finished sooner, what with me being one of those people and all :) I don't think anyone wants to see the game finished more than I do. But even more than that, I want it to be the game I want to play, and I want to do it right.

So, regardless of what the general attitude/perception is, I don't have any real choice in how to go about things. I'm already working as hard as I possibly can - because I love it, not out of a sense of obligation - although getting a new version of the game into your guys' hands is a huge motivator.

If the pace of development is not fast enough for someone, well, that's fine, and I understand - but it's not like I can suddenly realize, "oh, man, I really ought to be doing things twice as quickly!".

Alex, please use your blog update (FB or tweeter) to inform your existing/potential customer of snippets of what you are planning (or even idle thoughts on the direction of the development) and not just a monthly update of new, almost-finished features. Customer relationship management is about managing customer expectation and as pre-order customers, we are potentially the most valuable and cost-effective advocates of your game there is - you really don't want to lose people like the OP due to lack of information.

Hope you see this.

I see this, but I happen to strongly disagree - about the first part, that is. The last thing I want to do is talk about features I'm not sure about, create expectations, and then not deliver on said expectations. Besides, talking about things that are farther in the future is only going to cause more desire to see those things. If I have any influence in that regard, I'd rather you be excited about the things that are coming up soon :)

Also, I don't like the idea of calling the OP "lost". All he did was come here and express his opinion - which he absolutely has a right to, and that's grounded in wanting to see the game finished. I hope that he'll come back when the game is closer to completion, and am sincerely sorry that the pace of development didn't match his expectations. Like I said above, though, there's nothing I can do about that - beyond continuing to work on the game, and continuing to ask for your understanding in that this process takes time.
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Gothars

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2012, 05:28:23 AM »

If the pace of development is not fast enough for someone, well, that's fine, and I understand - but it's not like I can suddenly realize, "oh, man, I really ought to be doing things twice as quickly!".

Just focus on staying motivated. I'd rather want you to hold up the superb quality than rush things.  Starfarer is kind of my dream game, it is quite exactly the game I would try to make if I was into programming. I'm very happy that you put so much thought and time in the design, making every minor mechanic fun.


If I have any influence in that regard, I'd rather you be excited about the things that are coming up soon :)

That's the better option for me. Back when I was following the Minecraft development very closely it was always a bummer to know exactly what new things to expect in a release (but I still could not stop myself from reading). Keep it mysterious ;)
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Uomoz

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2012, 05:33:47 AM »

Am I the only one hoping that the development last as long as possible? Alex might hate me for saying things like this but I really like the pace of the development of this game, it's like following the progression of a music band, with new albums (big patches) every now and then. I find this whole thing thrilling and keep me obsessed with this game\community. I know that Alex may want to close this page sooner or later, but I sure do not want (right now).

/childish rant off
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BillyRueben

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2012, 06:06:38 AM »

Am I the only one hoping that the development last as long as possible?
I would think, unless I'm understanding you wrong. The less time between patches the better. The patches shouldn't be rushed (they should be stable, bug free, ect), but I'll happily download any updates as soon as they are available.
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keptin

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #65 on: August 09, 2012, 06:18:20 AM »

Meh, I wouldn't complain if the game exploded in popularity and the full-time staff like...tripled.  Here's to hoping.

Upgradecap

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #66 on: August 09, 2012, 06:36:13 AM »

Meh, I wouldn't complain if the game exploded in popularity and the full-time staff like...tripled.  Here's to hoping.

Well i wouldn't either, but we all know the old say "Too many chefs around a soup can make it worse" or something like that ;)

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GUNINANRUNIN

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #67 on: August 09, 2012, 06:47:22 AM »

Has it been established that Development isn't stagnant yet?  :P
It seems like an awful lot of posts for what is, as I see it, a very simple question with an equally simple answer.
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Infinite Monkeys

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #68 on: August 09, 2012, 07:39:17 AM »

When I said things like 'stagnant' and 'doomed to go nowhere' I was exaggerating a bit. That said, the only actual new content in a long time, as far as I can see, is phase cloaking and ship systems. While these might be fairly significant in combat balance it doesn't seem like a lot of additions - certainly not six months worth. This is the advertised eventual feature list:

Quote
Single player, gritty, dystopian sci-fi setting
Classic top down gameplay style enhanced by modern technology
A procedurally generated sector of the galaxy, seeded with well-known core worlds and factions
Develop your character into a hot-shot pilot, a cagey admiral, an industrial magnate – or anything in between
Outfit ships with your weapons of choice and add hull modifications to create crushing tactical combinations
Explore hundreds of star systems to find habitable worlds, rich resource deposits, and lost technology
Assemble a large, powerful fleet or a finely-tuned task force with hand-picked officers and crew
Cripple core world supply lines to cause chaos and create easy prey for piracy or bolster the rule of law and try to reverse the sector’s descent into anarchy
Impact the fate of the sector with your decisions and leave a permanent mark in the world

Out of these, the ones that are a product of development rather than the nature of the game itself are:

Quote
A procedurally generated sector of the galaxy, seeded with well-known core worlds and factions
Develop your character into a hot-shot pilot, a cagey admiral, an industrial magnate – or anything in between
Outfit ships with your weapons of choice and add hull modifications to create crushing tactical combinations
Explore hundreds of star systems to find habitable worlds, rich resource deposits, and lost technology
Assemble a large, powerful fleet or a finely-tuned task force with hand-picked officers and crew
Cripple core world supply lines to cause chaos and create easy prey for piracy or bolster the rule of law and try to reverse the sector’s descent into anarchy
Impact the fate of the sector with your decisions and leave a permanent mark in the world

Of these, the ones that are actually in the game are:

Quote
Outfit ships with your weapons of choice and add hull modifications to create crushing tactical combinations
Assemble a large, powerful fleet or a finely-tuned task force with hand-picked officers and crew

In 6 months a small amount of progress has been made on the two already in the game, and none whatsoever on the other five intended feature sets. It's all very well wanting combat to be polished but it seems like six solid months have been spent polishing..
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Hyph_K31

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2012, 09:25:37 AM »

Do you have any idea how hard it is to make a GOOD game? I've just made my first game (for a college course), it's terrible granted but it took a goddamn long time to get it WORKING in such a way that doesn't tear the computer to shreds.

Alex is doing a VERY good job with starfarer, and all you seem to be doing is moaning about the absence of PLANNED features.

And there is no such thing as too much polish in a game. :P

/Angry, rushed and slightly peeved rant over
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icepick37

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2012, 09:57:01 AM »

When I said things like 'stagnant' and 'doomed to go nowhere' I was exaggerating a bit
And now you are understating.

The game is moving along at a good clip. Cortex Command is as well, actually (admittedly that's a recent thing...). There's no reason to be snippy about planned features and perceived progress.
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xenoargh

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2012, 10:02:17 AM »

I wanted to speak up in support of Alex on these points.  Please understand that the ship Systems required a huge amount of work:

1.  Developing the Systems code itself.  
2.  More importantly, developing the AI to use said code.

That's quite a lot of work, and it doesn't include any bug-fixes or other things Alex was doing; all the "grunt work" behind the scenes of game development that is 99% hidden to Ye Average End User.

Plus he's been answering our stupid questions and handling our requests, politely and professionally.  That's terrifically awesome; he hasn't been hiding in a Developer Cave and generally not communicating, which is great (and really hard to do, as any coder will tell you, because your perception of "what's important" on the inside of a project is very different than end-users' expectations a lot of the time).

Anyhow, I certainly feel like I got my $10 worth and I'm looking forward to the Campaign being fleshed out and more of the engine being exposed to Java and generally made more moddable so that mods can add a lot of deep gameplay features.  This is one of those games where I think that ultimately good mods are going to be why people buy it and stay with it  :)
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Alex

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2012, 10:06:39 AM »

@InfiniteMonkeys: I think the assumption you're making is that all the bullet points you listed have equal weight in terms of effort. They're just a few descriptive sentences about the game - there could as easily be 10 more similar sentences about combat, without changing the nature of the game whatsoever.

Trying to gauge development progress based on that - or on a numerical evaluation of version numbers - just doesn't make sense.


In 6 months a small amount of progress has been made on the two already in the game, and none whatsoever on the other five intended feature sets. It's all very well wanting combat to be polished but it seems like six solid months have been spent polishing..

I think you might be minimizing the things you're less interested in. I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time, there's no way I would call the improvements to combat "small". There have also been a number of improvements to the current campaign along the way - ranging from quality-of-life stuff to new features.

I understand that it's tempting to think of certain things as "done" when they're functional, and then wonder why I haven't moved on to implementing new features. But there's a world of difference between "functional" and "good", and a good deal of that doesn't lend itself to particularly eye-catching bullet points. That's just how it is.

On the bright side, I'm looking forward to getting some serious campaign work done :)
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DJ Die

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2012, 10:44:30 AM »

In 6 months a small amount of progress has been made on the two already in the game, and none whatsoever on the other five intended feature sets. It's all very well wanting combat to be polished but it seems like six solid months have been spent polishing..
and this just shows how much or well....how LITTLE you know about game development...
one thing we have is working game engine that is able to handle battles and star systems which is a big part of what you need to make the game.....yes we still need some features but the ones we already have are great....


let me put that into perspective
take a look at some of the so called "AAA" titles nowadays....say Call of Duty series.....COD4/Modern Warfare 1 was an interesting game with many new or previously sparsely used features but even since MW1 all we've got are little tweaks to the engine and new weapons/missions while everything keeps looking the same sold as what 4 different games? and this is a game by professional game devs which huge financial base yet it still took them 2 years to create 2 games running on pretty much the same engine as their predecessor

on the other hand we have starfarer - game being written from the scratch by few individuals without experience from several big finished projects(i could be wrong about this one though), and which is, at least in some aspects, bound to be more difficult to make that "mere" FPS
yet its a game which has already one of the best combat systems ever, easy to mod and highly repayable even with current sandbox showcase campaign

i dont know about you but i sure as hell know who deserves my money....
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armoredcookie

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #74 on: August 09, 2012, 10:54:26 AM »

In comparison to most other small development team games out there, Starfarer is being created pretty quickly. Also it has to be noted that the combat system (in my opinion) is probably the most complex and work-requiring aspect of the game, as one little change here affects the entire system, which then needs to be rebalanced. AI is no easy feat to create, and I'm glad Alex has developed an intelligent and functional AI and I hope it only gets better and better.
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