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Author Topic: Stagnant Development  (Read 35295 times)

Faiter119

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2012, 11:55:22 PM »

I read the thread title and the first post, and I don't think it's necessary to even skim through the rest of this thread.

If this isn't a joke, which it really looks like to anyone who's semi-regularly paid attention to Starfarer's development and has even the loosest grasp on average development cycles, especially for indie games with small teams, then shame on you. Shame on you for not knowing better.

The dev team's communication with the community has been impeccable. The rate of progress has been astounding. At no point since this website was accessible to the general public has this not been the case.

This has been so blatantly, objectively obvious that I can only conclude that the OP has fallen victim to a sort of confirmation bias, where they only care about updates and communication concerning one or two aspects of the game they find particularly interesting(campaign features?), while progress and information about all other areas are ignored and considered wasted time, despite their fundamental importance in the scope of the project as a whole, and in game design in general.

It just isn't an apple pie without the crust, even if all *you* care about is the filling, and Alex is making this one from scratch, so he must first invent the universe, you see?

Before the recent update, there had been many months since a release and a long time since any new patchnotes. I totally understands that people became inpatient
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StianStark

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2012, 05:03:53 AM »

I read the thread title and the first post, and I don't think it's necessary to even skim through the rest of this thread.

If this isn't a joke, which it really looks like to anyone who's semi-regularly paid attention to Starfarer's development and has even the loosest grasp on average development cycles, especially for indie games with small teams, then shame on you. Shame on you for not knowing better.

The dev team's communication with the community has been impeccable. The rate of progress has been astounding. At no point since this website was accessible to the general public has this not been the case.

This has been so blatantly, objectively obvious that I can only conclude that the OP has fallen victim to a sort of confirmation bias, where they only care about updates and communication concerning one or two aspects of the game they find particularly interesting(campaign features?), while progress and information about all other areas are ignored and considered wasted time, despite their fundamental importance in the scope of the project as a whole, and in game design in general.

It just isn't an apple pie without the crust, even if all *you* care about is the filling, and Alex is making this one from scratch, so he must first invent the universe, you see?

Before the recent update, there had been many months since a release and a long time since any new patchnotes. I totally understands that people became inpatient

Disclaimer: This is an opinion post as a free individual, not a moderator.

I think the main problem here is that people misunderstand what they are buying when they buy an alpha version of a game. I totally understand people getting impatient waiting for something that they really like. What they don't seem to understand is that this emotional response to complain should be repressed Mr. Spock style, because it is not logical.

Why? Go read the BUY -section of the Starfarer website. Where does it say that you are entitled to monthly or bi-monthly updates? Where does it say that every udpate has to have something that you really like? Where does it promise that the game has to be finished within a year or you get your money back plus a lollipop for your hurt feelings? It doesn't. Here's what it does say:

"When you preorder, you’re getting Starfarer in its current state."

The fact that you get subsequent updates for free does not mean that you are somehow entitled to those updates. And just because there were a few quick updates in the past doesn't mean that now suddenly every update has to be released according to that imaginary schedule. All this should be painfully obvious to everyone.

Also, if you want the developers to work faster at something, does anyone think that calling the game "a great promise doomed to go nowhere", like the OP did, works as an efficient motivator? Here's the answer: No, it doesn't. In all likelyhood it has the exactly opposite effect, and if I wasn't a quasi-official appearing entity on this forum I would slap the OP in the face. But I won't.

This thread is just an incredibly silly waste of time. A year from now someone will accidentally find it somewhere in the depths of the forum, read it and quietly close the browser tab, ashamed that we even had to have this discussion.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 05:23:45 AM by StianStark »
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arcibalde

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2012, 07:54:56 AM »

Errr can i at least have that lollipop?
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Alex

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2012, 07:59:03 AM »

... aaand that's Mr. Stark, pulling no punches and telling it like it is. I do want to expand on some of the things he said, though.

"When you preorder, you’re getting Starfarer in its current state."

I sincerely hope that all of you had read that before deciding to support Starfarer's development. After all, it's in the very first sentence on the preorder page - and hardly a good way to start a sales pitch, if you ask me - but it's something I felt was vital to establish from the beginning. Why? Because things happen. If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, or had a different sort of an emergency, it would have a real impact on the future of the game. I really hope that doesn't happen (and I think I've got a bit more of a stake in it than you!), but that's not something anyone in their right mind can promise.


Also, if you want the developers to work faster at something, does anyone think that calling the game "a great promise doomed to go nowhere", like the OP did, works as an efficient motivator? Here's the answer: No, it doesn't. In all likelyhood it has the exactly opposite effect

I'd like to think that my mental state is reasonably sound, but I admit to feeling momentarily disheartened when reading those words. Personally, I try to see it as an opportunity for personal growth - of the skin-thickening kind. +1 carapace upgrade research complete!

Ultimately, the OP has my gratitude as a supporter of the game, and has every right to state his opinion. Thank you all for your support - and for sharing your thoughts - too!


Errr can i at least have that lollipop?

I just tried to convert the price of a preorder into lollipops and got terribly depressed. Thanks for that. (I know, I know - comparing virtual goods to physical ones is considerably worse than comparing apples to oranges.)
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Erick Doe

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2012, 08:16:11 AM »


Also, if you want the developers to work faster at something, does anyone think that calling the game "a great promise doomed to go nowhere", like the OP did, works as an efficient motivator? Here's the answer: No, it doesn't. In all likelyhood it has the exactly opposite effect

I'd like to think that my mental state is reasonably sound, but I admit to feeling momentarily disheartened when reading those words. Personally, I try to see it as an opportunity for personal growth - of the skin-thickening kind. +1 carapace upgrade research complete!

Ultimately, the OP has my gratitude as a supporter of the game, and has every right to state his opinion. Thank you all for your support - and for sharing your thoughts - too!


Alex, just remember that there are zounds of people out there that absolutely love Starfarer, appreciate all the work you put into it and realize that nothing good just gets done overnight. A quality product takes time and love (and maybe a little magic). Plus you've given dozens of players (and me!) a great creative outlet allowing them to mod to their hearts content! Even at this early stage in development, this project just keeps on giving.  ;)
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arcibalde

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2012, 09:37:35 AM »

...

I just tried to convert the price of a preorder into lollipops and got terribly depressed. Thanks for that. (I know, I know - comparing virtual goods to physical ones is considerably worse than comparing apples to oranges.)

OOOOhoooo there, i'm not responsible for your imagination  :P  No way  8)
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naufrago

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2012, 09:44:42 AM »

...there are zounds of people out there that absolutely love Starfarer...
[EDIT: It submitted my post before I actually put any content in. Weird.]

Just FYI, "zounds" is short for "(by) God's wounds" and is an exclamation of anger or surprise. It isn't short for "thousands." =)

I'm going to hazard a guess and say you played Heroes of Might and Magic (possibly 3?), saw a group of monsters where it said "Zounds... <monster type>," and made certain assumptions? How wrong am I?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 09:53:18 AM by naufrago »
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Erick Doe

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2012, 10:21:10 AM »

...there are zounds of people out there that absolutely love Starfarer...
[EDIT: It submitted my post before I actually put any content in. Weird.]

Just FYI, "zounds" is short for "(by) God's wounds" and is an exclamation of anger or surprise. It isn't short for "thousands." =)

I'm going to hazard a guess and say you played Heroes of Might and Magic (possibly 3?), saw a group of monsters where it said "Zounds... <monster type>," and made certain assumptions? How wrong am I?

It is also used as a mild oath. In this context a (large) pledge of players. You could see it as a slang term for "one-thousand". Let's face it, languages are alive! And if someone starts using "zounds" in numerical reference or in reference of rough quantities, it might catch on!  ;)
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Hyph_K31

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2012, 10:25:43 AM »

I might just start using that word ;)
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Erick Doe

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2012, 10:27:24 AM »

I might just start using that word ;)

Then my work here is done.  ;D


In answer of naufrago's earlier post though, yes I was a fervent player of Heroes of Might and magic III.  ;)
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Blackoth

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2012, 05:33:06 PM »

Im perfectly happy with the rate of development. every update has alot of changes, and usually a brand new thing. Starfarer is one of my favorite games of all time and its still in development, that says alot!

Alex, KEEP IT UP!!!!!!!!
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Reshy

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2012, 10:04:38 PM »

"When you preorder, you’re getting Starfarer in its current state."

The fact that you get subsequent updates for free does not mean that you are somehow entitled to those updates. And just because there were a few quick updates in the past doesn't mean that now suddenly every update has to be released according to that imaginary schedule. All this should be painfully obvious to everyone.

Also, if you want the developers to work faster at something, does anyone think that calling the game "a great promise doomed to go nowhere", like the OP did, works as an efficient motivator? Here's the answer: No, it doesn't. In all likelyhood it has the exactly opposite effect, and if I wasn't a quasi-official appearing entity on this forum I would slap the OP in the face. But I won't.

This thread is just an incredibly silly waste of time. A year from now someone will accidentally find it somewhere in the depths of the forum, read it and quietly close the browser tab, ashamed that we even had to have this discussion.


"When you preorder, you’re getting Starfarer in its current state."

I sincerely hope that all of you had read that before deciding to support Starfarer's development. After all, it's in the very first sentence on the preorder page - and hardly a good way to start a sales pitch, if you ask me - but it's something I felt was vital to establish from the beginning. Why? Because things happen. If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, or had a different sort of an emergency, it would have a real impact on the future of the game. I really hope that doesn't happen (and I think I've got a bit more of a stake in it than you!), but that's not something anyone in their right mind can promise.


I understood this before I bought it, still choose to do it.  It surprises me that people don't even read the most important parts of the terms of service.  Honestly one of my friend's is the programmer for another indie game and I know how long it takes just to get very basic things done.  I'm also the person that usually pushes for giving developers more time to develop things because I know how long it takes to actually make anything substantial.
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Ambient

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2012, 10:13:48 AM »

This game to me is the mount and blade in space.

I want to see it finished as soon as possible.
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Zapier

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2012, 07:06:23 PM »

I'm in no rush to have it finished as soon as possible. Rushed completions are rarely better than something released when it's ready... not to mention, since any of us playing right now have already bought the game, does it really matter WHEN it's finished? We get access to builds throughout it's whole development, so technically we'll be playing and have pretty much played the whole game when it is released.

So, I'd like to see it get finished... and continue to have the same quality at it's end as it's maintained throughout the development... when it's ready. Not ASAP.
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Steven Shi

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Re: Stagnant Development
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2012, 11:24:58 PM »

I started a very similar thread a month ago and Alex was nice enough to explain why the progress of the game is as it is.

Anyway, as a consumer I can sympathise with the recent shift in forum attitude towards Starfarer since there's been no development aside from combat in months. This stems from the lack of understanding of the game development cycle and a mistaken belief the game is months, instead of years, from completion.

Alex, please use your blog update (FB or tweeter) to inform your existing/potential customer of snippets of what you are planning (or even idle thoughts on the direction of the development) and not just a monthly update of new, almost-finished features. Customer relationship management is about managing customer expectation and as pre-order customers, we are potentially the most valuable and cost-effective advocates of your game there is - you really don't want to lose people like the OP due to lack of information.

Hope you see this.
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