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[CopperCoyote]

The scatter CEPC isn't very good at the moment. I think its range is the same as it was before numerically, but in practise it is much shorter. Because it always spreads so wide it is important to move in close before firing. If you don't you end up doing trivial damage at hefty flux costs. Once you close in it does fairly well against shields. Even the smallest amount of armor really puts a damper on it though. Shadowyards and tritachyon frigates were the only ships the scatter CEPC did satisfying amounts of damage to. Fighter wings were usually small enough that even at extremely close distances you could still over spray.

Possible remedies:
Make it more strike-y by decreasing the ROF and increasing the flux cost and damage.
Bring in the scatter by half or more. possibly have it go in a couple bursts so the projectile density looks the same.
Increase the range and make it more flux efficient so you can use it to sweep fighters and frigs at a more reasonable flux cost.

I couldn't get a good feel for the Tartarus. The silly mission was hilarious, but buffalos aren't really that threatening even in a massive herd like that. I just used ITU'd medium CEPCs and harpoons. It was a breeze. Maybe put one of each of the hulls in the outlet plant in the campaign? I use omnifactory and that'd make testing things super simple.

The Mimir's new phase skip is more reasonable. I can't kite the world any more. Something strange is happening now though. When i use it my frame rate plummets. It may be related to some difficulties i had with my old video card recently. If nothing has been changed then that is probably the cause. I really like how fast the integrated cannon fires now. I can use it at long range against some of the swifter cruisers.

The Pandora Array sparks spread out so far now that it mostly misses destroyer sized ships. Against cruisers and capitals it does a reasonable amount of damage still. I don't know if it is intentional, but usually half the sparks simply vanish after a short time. I don't dare let the AI use them in fleet battles though because it fires them all over and i'm not a fan of getting destroyed by my allies. I have no idea how you can make the AI do things so i don't have any useful suggestions there.

I haven't used the new tanker, but it looks good. If it dies when combat ships merely breath heavy on it then it is keeping in line with the default tankers.

Advanced apologies if this doesn't make sense as i'm posting in the wee hours of the morning.

[MShadowy]

The scatter CEPC isn't very good at the moment. I think its range is the same as it was before numerically, but in practise it is much shorter. Because it always spreads so wide it is important to move in close before firing. If you don't you end up doing trivial damage at hefty flux costs. Once you close in it does fairly well against shields. Even the smallest amount of armor really puts a damper on it though. Shadowyards and tritachyon frigates were the only ships the scatter CEPC did satisfying amounts of damage to. Fighter wings were usually small enough that even at extremely close distances you could still over spray.

Possible remedies:
Make it more strike-y by decreasing the ROF and increasing the flux cost and damage.
Bring in the scatter by half or more. possibly have it go in a couple bursts so the projectile density looks the same.
Increase the range and make it more flux efficient so you can use it to sweep fighters and frigs at a more reasonable flux cost.

I couldn't get a good feel for the Tartarus. The silly mission was hilarious, but buffalos aren't really that threatening even in a massive herd like that. I just used ITU'd medium CEPCs and harpoons. It was a breeze. Maybe put one of each of the hulls in the outlet plant in the campaign? I use omnifactory and that'd make testing things super simple.

The Mimir's new phase skip is more reasonable. I can't kite the world any more. Something strange is happening now though. When i use it my frame rate plummets. It may be related to some difficulties i had with my old video card recently. If nothing has been changed then that is probably the cause. I really like how fast the integrated cannon fires now. I can use it at long range against some of the swifter cruisers.

The Pandora Array sparks spread out so far now that it mostly misses destroyer sized ships. Against cruisers and capitals it does a reasonable amount of damage still. I don't know if it is intentional, but usually half the sparks simply vanish after a short time. I don't dare let the AI use them in fleet battles though because it fires them all over and i'm not a fan of getting destroyed by my allies. I have no idea how you can make the AI do things so i don't have any useful suggestions there.

I haven't used the new tanker, but it looks good. If it dies when combat ships merely breath heavy on it then it is keeping in line with the default tankers.

Advanced apologies if this doesn't make sense as i'm posting in the wee hours of the morning.

Thank you very much for the post, CC.

On to the critique; I guess I'll make the weapons spread a tighter and maybe boost her range.  The "more strike-y" suggestion sounds good as well.  I wish I knew why she does so little damage to armor since, as an energy weapon, the damage ratio should be ~1:1 regardless of the defense... I think.  Regardless it should be doing more damage than it is.  Maybe it's only counting one of the projectiles when they hit?

And sorry 'bout the silly mission.  I'd intended to revise it from my testing setup to something a bit more 'real world' and revising the mission managed to skip my mind in the bustle of finishing the cruiser up.  Adding the hulls to the Outlet plant for testing though sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

As for the changes to the Mimir coming out like they ought; good.  More reasonable is pretty much what I wanted, and I'm pretty sure I've got it about right in terms of charge time and the like.  The Pandora Array, on the other hand, is kind of a trick to balance and I'm not surprised that I may have overdone it. As for the sparks mysteriously vanishing that's... not supposed to be happening actually, but I'm not sure what's causing it, and it doesn't happen entirely consistently under various circumstances (e.g. it sometimes, but not always, happens when the sparks are receiving point defense fire); it may be related to the effects culling but that seems like it would be a bit strange seeing as the sparks are technically missiles.

The Lambent is quite likely to perish at the slightest odd bump or funny look; it's actually a bit less well defended than the Phaeton, but also a bit less expensive... (I think, I need to double check the prices).  Anyway, thanks for the commentary, much appreciated.

Starting to play around with the Tartarus, and one thing has become very clear: its ship system will need to benefit primarily energy weapons.  I don't have one in the campaign, yet, but at least in the mission, there's a strong temptation to build Tartarus variants that use the universal hardpoints for ballistic or missile weapons - even with its current High Energy Focus, you're generally better off using more flux-efficient guns.

The other thing I've noticed so far is that the Light CEPC is completely ineffective as a point defense gun - I think it's too accurate, maybe?

Have not tested the Scatter CEPC yet - haven't had a variant it was suited for.

Already spoke with you on Skype about this, but thanks again for your thoughts.

[Wyvern]

Starting to play around with the Tartarus, and one thing has become very clear: its ship system will need to benefit primarily energy weapons.  I don't have one in the campaign, yet, but at least in the mission, there's a strong temptation to build Tartarus variants that use the universal hardpoints for ballistic or missile weapons - even with its current High Energy Focus, you're generally better off using more flux-efficient guns.

The other thing I've noticed so far is that the Light CEPC is completely ineffective as a point defense gun - I think it's too accurate, maybe?

Have not tested the Scatter CEPC yet - haven't had a variant it was suited for.

Already spoke with you on Skype about this, but thanks again for your thoughts.

Huh?  You must be thinking of someone else...

[MShadowy]

Derp, my brain is off.

I was actually thinking of MesoTronic and somehow conflated you two.  I have no idea how.

[Wyvern]

Derp, my brain is off.

I was actually thinking of MesoTronic and somehow conflated you two.  I have no idea how.

Cosmic rays.  Clearly.  When all else fails, blame cosmic rays.  Or was that gremlins?

[CopperCoyote]

--stuff--

Thank you very much for the post, CC.

On to the critique; I guess I'll make the weapons spread a tighter and maybe boost her range.  The "more strike-y" suggestion sounds good as well.  I wish I knew why she does so little damage to armor since, as an energy weapon, the damage ratio should be ~1:1 regardless of the defense... I think.  Regardless it should be doing more damage than it is.  Maybe it's only counting one of the projectiles when they hit?

And sorry 'bout the silly mission.  I'd intended to revise it from my testing setup to something a bit more 'real world' and revising the mission managed to skip my mind in the bustle of finishing the cruiser up.  Adding the hulls to the Outlet plant for testing though sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

As for the changes to the Mimir coming out like they ought; good.  More reasonable is pretty much what I wanted, and I'm pretty sure I've got it about right in terms of charge time and the like.  The Pandora Array, on the other hand, is kind of a trick to balance and I'm not surprised that I may have overdone it. As for the sparks mysteriously vanishing that's... not supposed to be happening actually, but I'm not sure what's causing it, and it doesn't happen entirely consistently under various circumstances (e.g. it sometimes, but not always, happens when the sparks are receiving point defense fire); it may be related to the effects culling but that seems like it would be a bit strange seeing as the sparks are technically missiles.

The Lambent is quite likely to perish at the slightest odd bump or funny look; it's actually a bit less well defended than the Phaeton, but also a bit less expensive... (I think, I need to double check the prices).  Anyway, thanks for the commentary, much appreciated.

I don't recall the exact formula, but armor reduces damage by a percentage. You still do a minimum amount of damage (25% i think) but the armor reduces it on a per shot basis so all of those little CEPC pellets are getting reduced more than if it was one big slug. Using a fleet of enlils with scatter CEPCs against the pirates was tedious. Against enforcer sized things and above they did ok at breaking shields, but frigate fleets i'd need to gang up on at least 2 to 1. I had to use missiles to crack the armor. The pellets do full damage to hull though so it kind of felt like i was using a kinetic weapon instead of an energy one.

I like the silly mission. It isn't terribly hard, but things don't have to be a challenge to be fun.

The funny thing about the pandora array sparks is when PD kills one it doesn't disappear. It even runs the explosion animation and every thing but no damage happens. Oh yeah and phase ships don't take into account the explosion radius. Once they get down to 20% hull they stay under longer and more defensively but that is still 80% damage you've done easy as 123. The best way to see this in action is against the doom. My friendly ships don't fear it either. I've lost a couple phase frigates to it.

I'll try the Lambent in the herd mission and see if i can scratch a buffalo2

[Wyvern]

I couldn't get a good feel for the Tartarus. The silly mission was hilarious, but buffalos aren't really that threatening even in a massive herd like that. I just used ITU'd medium CEPCs and harpoons. It was a breeze. Maybe put one of each of the hulls in the outlet plant in the campaign? I use omnifactory and that'd make testing things super simple.

The mission may be silly, but you can always go to the refitting simulator and use that instead.

[HELMUT]

Well, unlike CopperCoyote, i found this mission kinda tricky. Buffaloes come in great number and can swarm the screen with missiles. They may explode by blowing on them, but they tends to go trigger happy if you don't kill them fast enough. When you are surrounded and missiles are filling the screen, there is not much you can do as SHI don't have really good PD. So yeah, not impossible to do, but i didn't expect Buffaloes to give that much resistance.

For the Tartarus, like the in-game description said, it is the anvil while the rest of the fleet is the hammer. It don't do anything fancy, it is reasonably though and have reasonable firepower. Well, a reasonable cruiser, no more, no less. I have to try it in campaign mode with several of them to truly decide though.

[CopperCoyote]

Well, unlike CopperCoyote, i found this mission kinda tricky. Buffaloes come in great number and can swarm the screen with missiles. They may explode by blowing on them, but they tends to go trigger happy if you don't kill them fast enough. When you are surrounded and missiles are filling the screen, there is not much you can do as SHI don't have really good PD. So yeah, not impossible to do, but i didn't expect Buffaloes to give that much resistance.

For the Tartarus, like the in-game description said, it is the anvil while the rest of the fleet is the hammer. It don't do anything fancy, it is reasonably though and have reasonable firepower. Well, a reasonable cruiser, no more, no less. I have to try it in campaign mode with several of them to truly decide though.

I haven't had a chance to try in campaign yet either but i've finally got one into the omnifac so.... Soon *Ominous*

In the mission I had 2 medium burst lasers (Frontmost and back) and 2 small burst lasers (in the reward slots). I knew i was going to have to deal with missile spam. The important thing to remember is to only down one at a time. Also backpedal backpedal backpedal. If you go slightly diagonally back the salamanders usually hit your shield instead of your hull. By the time you get to the corner you should have less than 5 buffalo2s left, and can just bunker up in the corner.

The other thing I've noticed so far is that the Light CEPC is completely ineffective as a point defense gun - I think it's too accurate, maybe?

After Wyvern mentioned this i decided to test it. I prefer the LRPD or the light burst so i rarely used them. After I started putting them on every thing i noticed they seldom hit things with transverse velocity. Even with elite crew they'd miss. It's like the gunners think they're firing a beam, or something, they never lead their target at any rate. When i'd manually aim them at plodding LRMs they felt like they were a little lacking in the power too. I compared with the normal beams and kinetic PD and i'm not sure why that is. Maybe the burst is too spread out.

[Silver Silence]

The Scatter CEPC, when I first saw it many moons ago in Uz's Corvus with like, the first iteration of SHI, I thought it was gonna be a shotgun like weapon. "Scatter". Scattershot. Instead it was just a faster firing medium CEPC, but the medium had better range and a better sustained DPS for less OP. So I just used the Mediums and have barely touched the Scatter since. Don't see much of the Scatter CEPC in Exerelin, either. I don't know what ships tend to have it equipped.

[MShadowy]

Yeah, that was me not figuring out how to do a proper shotgun like effect.  Buuuuuut I'm basically dumb so that's no real surprise.

I should probably thank Cycerin for the Splinter Volleygun, which allowed me to figure out my error.  Finally.

Alright, big list o' changes about the Scatter CEPC (as of my wip version this morning): Instead of firing 5 shots per volley it now fires 20; the damage per shot is a bit lower (currently at 45 rather than 50); slighter slower turn rate (from 20 to 14); number shots in her hopper greatly increased (from 20 to 60) and regen rate doubled (from 2 to 4); there is now a slight delay before firing (0.2 sec), and a much longer chargedown (0.5 sec to 3.65 sec); the flux cost has gone way up as well (from 100 to 450); her spread is also higher (from 2 min/8 max to 18 min/28 max).

We should all be thankful for the generous sacrifices made by the Buffalo Mk II population to the testing of dangerous shooty objects.

Anyway, current dev version ready for download =here=

Edit:  Oh, and this includes some more changes to the Skinwalker Fighters; the first was getting the main weapon how I wanted and the pbc is now a nicely snappy beam weapon, the second and more experimental was adding a shrike missile to the crafts armaments package to give her a bit more utility as a general purpose/multi-role fighter, but I'm not sure I'll keep that.  Also included are some modernizations of the scripting to bring in line with the current version of LazyLib, courtesy of Silent Strompt (at MesoTronics urging; thanks for the unsolicited assistance!).  This includes removing the CombatUtils.java file that was in data/scripts/plugins, so be sure to pull that out if you just overwrite the mod - it was causing some compatibility errors with other heavily scripted mods.

[Sabaton]

 Really nice mod you have here, unique aspect as well, had a lot of fun with the sesky, nasty little bugger, good for harassing, and squashing fighters, the phase frigate was also nice to use,   took out a pirate carrier group once, thou it took me 1h and 3 rounds with all the rocket spam(don't realize how REALLY annoying they are until you fly a phase ship), made me think" this is how phase ships should be like".
 The mimir is great as well, good firepower and agility thx to its system, cool primary gun, its brown bow reminded me of the alien movies and dark seed.
  But SHI has a handicap in campaign: they almost never bring in weapons of their own to sell.   

[MShadowy]

Alrighty, next dev version is up.  Added is the Scylla class phase cruiser (which is pretty fearsome) as well as new drones for the Charybdis.  Oh, and a new medium sized point defense weapon which is basically four of the small shadowyards pd weapons strapped together.  It is likely that none of these things are balanced.

Also, there are two new missions to show these things off; the first, Between Scylla and Charybdis, features, well... I'm sure you can guess, working for Shadowyards Heavy Industries intercepting a bunch of probably pirates trying to sneak past them.  The second one, Bolivian Army Ending, features a band of pirates finding their hidey hole compromised by a bunch of tremendously upset Yardies.  It may very well be unwinnable.

Screenshots:

Spoiler

New drones for the Charybdis!


And new cruiser entirely!

[close]

=Download=

[Silver Silence]

That new SHI ship does seem very much like their own version of the Dominator.

[CopperCoyote]

I jumped into the mission with the scylla and noticed the damage to flux ration of the wave beam is nuts. 267 DPS compared to 29 FPS. Has it always been like this?
That massive nebula really kills my frame rates. It wasn't too hard though. The biggest thing is trying to catch em' all before they flee.

The light and chaingang CEPCs still don't lead their targets. Without any transverse velocity the chaingang is pretty awesome. I like that its built in pool is the same as the light CEPC. In a pinch they do well against shields too.

I like the new drones for the charybdis. The tiny shields mean beams aren't auto drone grinders.

The scylla is pretty good (against pirates [haven't started campaign yet]). I feel like it could use a bit of a boost to its maneuverability though. I dropped the expanded magazines and advanced gyros for the aux-thrusters, but i still felt like i needed more. Maybe i'm just spoiled by the charybdis.

Edit: In the campaign the scylla is beastly, but the phase flux per second is kind of pricey. It completely needs good PD. I loaded it up with all the beam weapons and it just waves those around and looks quite pretty.

The chaingang only costs 240 credits too. I don't know if it is supposed to be so cheap but it is.